>>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> EUROPE IS GOING IN SOME BAD DIRECTIONS.

>> REBUFFING EUROPE AND EMBRACING RUSSIA, TRUMP SETS OUT A NEW WORLD ORDER IN HIS NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGY.

WE HELP FIGURE THIS OUT.

THEN.

>>> WAR IS NOT A WAY OF SETTLING DISPUTES.

>> TOP DIPLOMATS FROM EUROPE, QATAR, AND TURKEY ON MEDIATION IN THE PATH TO PEACE.

>>> THESE WRITERS ARE AT THE FOREFRONT OF THOUGHT AND LITERATURE IN OUR CULTURE.

>> THE NEW YORKER TURNS 100 AND A NEW DOCUMENTARY PEERS INSIDE THE MAGAZINE AS IT CREATES ITS ANNIVERSARY ISSUE.

>>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

HOSTILE TO EUROPE, WARM TO RUSSIA, THE TRUMP 2.0 NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGY IS CAUSING A MIX OF FURY, RESIGNATION, EVEN ACCUSATIONS OF IGNORANCE.

BUT IS IT A WISH LIST OR A ROAD MAP FOR A NEW WORLD ORDER?

MOSCOW HAS WELCOMED THE PLAN SAYING THAT IT ALIGNS WITH PUTIN'S VISION.

WHILE FORMER SWEDISH PRIME MINISTER SAID IT IS TO THE RIGHT OF THE EXTREME RIGHT IN EUROPE.

IT DOUBLES DOWN ON HIS U.N.

SPEECH WHERE HE TOLD EUROPEAN ALLIES HE IS FAILING AND IMMIGRATION TO THE CONTENT WILL QUOTE ERASE ITS CIVILIZATION.

THOUGH IT CALLS ON RESISTING EUROPE, THE EU TOP DIPLOMAT DISPLAYED A DETERMINATION TO KEEP CALM AND CARRY ON WHEN I MET HER IN DOHAR AT THE ANNUAL FORUM THERE.

CONFIDENT.

THAT'S FOR SURE.

THE U.S.

IS STILL OUR BIGGEST ALLY.

I READ IT AS WELL, WITH RESTILL THE BIGGEST ALLY AND IT IS IN THE INTEREST OF THE UNITED STATES AS WELL THAT EUROPE LASTS.

AND THAT WE ARE REALLY STILL THE ALLY AND WORKING TOGETHER FOR THESE THINGS.

I THINK WE HAVEN'T ALWAYS SEEN EYE TO EYE ON DIFFERENT TOPICS BUT THE OVERALL PRINCIPLE IS STILL THERE.

WE ARE THE BIGGEST ALLIES AND WE SHOULD STICK TOGETHER.

>> NICE TRY, BUT HERE IS WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP LATER TOLD POLITICO.

>> I THINK THEY'RE WEAK.

BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THEY WANT TO BE SO POLITICALLY CORRECT.

I THINK THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

EUROPE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO IN TRADE EITHER.

>> NOT QUITE ON THE SAME PAGE.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

CELESTE WALLENDER SERVED AS ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN.

AND PETER FRANCOPAN IS WITH OXFORD UNIVERSITY AND THEY ARE BOTH JOINING ME NOW.

PETER, YOU ARE IN THE STUDIO, AND YOU ARE EUROPEAN.

WHAT'S YOUR REACTION?

I MEAN, THERE WAS THE STRATEGY DOCUMENT THAT DROPPED WHEN WE WERE ALL AT THE ANNUAL FORUM.

THEN THERE WAS DOUBLING DOWN IN THIS PRETTY SCORCHING INTERVIEW.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION?

>> WELL I THINK IT'S NOT NEW.

THAT SORT OF CONTEMPT WE SAW WITH JD VANCE IN MUNICH.

>> IT HAS NOW BEEN OFFICIALIZED AND FORMALIZED.

>> THAT IS HOW THE MAINSTREAM MAGA MOVEMENT AROUND TRUMP SEES EUROPE.

IT IS A DECAYING CONTINENT THAT IS GETTING OLDER AND IS MORE OR LESS DISPENSABLE TO THE UNITED STATES.

SO TRUMP'S AMERICA FIRST LOOKS TO EUROPE AS THE REST OF THE WORLD, AMERICA ALONE.

CAN THE U.S.

DO WITHOUT ALLIES AND WITHOUT EUROPE AND THAT IS REALIGNMENT OF U.S.

LINING UP WITH RUSSIA, IS THAT A GOOD BET TO TAKE?

I THINK HISTORY WOULD SUGGEST YOU NEED TO BE PRETTY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING WITH THE BIG RUSSIAN BEAR AND THE IDEA WE ARE THE ONES THAT WILL FAIL AND THE RUSSIANS WILL COME OUT ON TOP REQUIRES SEVERAL LEAPS OF FAITH.

>> CAN AMERICA DO WITHOUT ITS EUROPEAN ALLIES?

YES, TRUMP FOR THE LONGEST TIME HAS HATED THE EU.

REMEMBER, HE SAID IT WAS CREATED JUST TO DESTROY AMERICA.

WHATEVER THE RIGHT WORDS ARE.

CAN IT DO WITHOUT THE ALLIES?

>> WELL, IT IS REALLY AMAZING THAT YOU PLAY THAT CLIP FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP.

HIS OWN NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGY, THE STRATEGY THAT WAS RELEASED LAST WEEK STATES EUROPE HAS A HARD POWERED ADVANTAGE OVER RUSSIA.

WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IS A IS INTERNALLY INCONSISTENT, INCOHERENT AND DOESN'T ALIGN WITH WHAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES IS SAYING.

AND SO, IT IS NOT CLEAR EXACTLY WHAT THE WHITE HOUSE STRATEGY TOWARD RUSSIA IS.

BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND IT IS SAYING EUROPE HAS ALL THESE ASSETS AND SHOULD BE CONFIDENT AND ABLE TO TAKE CARE OF RUSSIA AND YOU ARE HEARING THAT EUROPE IS ON ITS WAY OUT.

BECAUSE OF IMMIGRATION.

BECAUSE IT IS LOSING ITS CIVILIZATIONAL IDENTITY AS IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS MEANINGFUL IN A MOMENT WHERE RUSSIA IS USING HARD POWER TO ATTACK A EUROPEAN COUNTRY.

UKRAINE.

AND SO IT IS REALLY HARD TO EVEN GRASP ONTO SOMETHING TO DISAGREE WITH BECAUSE THE NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGY IS ALL OVER THE MAP.

>> I ASKED WHETHER THE U.S.

CAN DO WITHOUT ITS LONG TIME ALLIES IN EUROPE AND YOU SAID IT IS ALL THESE MAGA ALLIES AROUND TRUMP THAT HAVE THEIR VIEWS.

SOME SEE STEVEN MILLER IN THERE.

OTHERS SEE JD VANCE AND IT IS VERY INCONSISTENT.

BUT ON THE QUESTION OF ALLIANCE, CAN THE U.S.

DO IT ALONE?

>> THE U.S.

NEEDS EUROPE.

FOR THE ASSETS EUROPE BRING TO THE TABLE.

AMERICA HAS THE LARGEST MILITARY FORCE IN THE WORLD.

TO BE ABLE TO DEFEND AND DETER, WE NEED TO HAVE MILITARY BASES FROM COUNTRIES ACROSS THE GLOBE.

AND IN PARTICULAR, IN EUROPE.

EUROPE HELPS THE UNITED STATES TO SUPPORT GOALS IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

ALLIES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

AND WE HAVE FOR EXAMPLE IN THE OPERATIONS AGAINST IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM, RELIED UPON IN EUROPE.

TO PREVENT RUSSIAN NUCLEAR SUBMARINES TO PREVENT DETECTION.

THIS IS WHY NATO IS IN AMERICAN NATIONAL SECURITY INTERESTS.

IT IS NOT ALTRUISM.

IT IS NATIONAL SELF-INTEREST.

IT HAS BEEN FOR 80 YEARS AND THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE SEEMS TO LOSE SIGHT OF THE REASON WHY NATO WAS CREATED.

IT WAS CREATED TO HELP PROTECT AMERICA.

>> IN FACT, AS WE ALL KNOW, THE ONLY TIME ARTICLE 5 HAS EVER BEEN IMPLEMENTED AND CALLED FOR WAS TO DEFEND AMERICA AND SUPPORT AMERICA AFTER 9/11.

PETER, CAN THE EUROPE GO IT ALONE WITHOUT THE UNITED STATES GIVEN THE U.S.

POWER, BUT NONETHELESS, WHAT CELESTE HAS ALREADY SAID.

AND HOW LONG CAN OR SHOULD EUROPEAN LEADERS PUT UP WITH THIS UNSEEMLY ABUSE AS OTHERS HAVE SUGGESTED IN THE WAKE OF THIS NATIONAL SECURITY DOCTRINE?

>> YOU NEED TO SEPARATE THE NOISE AND WATCH THE HIPS AND NOT THE LIPS.

WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON.

ONE OF THE FIRST QUESTIONS IS WHICH PARTS OF WHAT TRUMP IS SAYING ARE FAIR AND RIGHT.

WHAT YOU HAVE IS A SET OF HIERARCHIES.

AND IN TRUMP'S GLOBAL VISION, THERE IS NOTHING FOR LATIN AMERICA AND AFRICA.

THE WAY THE U.S.

IS SEEING IS CHINA AT THE TOP.

AND HOW RUSSIA FITS INTO THAT.

IN EUROPE, WITH E HAVE TO WORK OUT HOW DO WE DO OUR DEFENSE AND IT IS TRUE WE BRING A LOT OF PIECES TO THE PARTY.

>> INTELLIGENCE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND THERE IS NO QUESTION, WE ARE PART OF THOSE EQUATIONS BUT HOW IT IS SEEN FROM THIS WHITE HOUSE IS THAT WE ARE NOT A PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT PIECE OF THE JIGSAW PUZZLE BOARD.

UNLESS WE CAN NAVIGATE THE U.S.

THROUGH THESE DISCUSSIONS WE WILL BE PUSHED OUT.

>> YOU JUST SAID ABOUT LATIN AMERICA.

BUT TRUMP IS DOING WHAT HE WANT TO DO IN LATIN AMERICA.

LOOK WHAT'S HAPPENING IN VENEZUELA.

MAYBE A FULL BLOWN WAR.

ACTUALLY HAVING SUPPORT FROM A LOT OF LATIN AMERICA COUNTRIES WHICH APPROVE OF THE VENEZUELA ACTION AND ARE GOING FAR RIGHT.

LET'S PUT THIS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW.

DO YOU THINK THAT THIS DOCUMENT OUTLINED WHAT WE HAVE ALL BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

A SPHERE OF INFLUENCE DOCTRINE WHERE AMERICA GET TO BE IN CHARGE OF AND KEEPS AND ONLY WANTS THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE.

CHINA WHICH WASN'T DEALT A HARSH HAND GET TO HAVE THE PACIFIC AND RUSSIA GETS TO HAVE ITS AREA AND WHO KNOWS WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO EUROPE.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE CREEPING SPHERE OF INFLUENCE THING?

THAT IS THE CREEPING THINKING AND THEY TALK ABOUT A NEW MONROE DOCTRINE.

TO THE EXTENT THERE IS PUSHBACK AGAINST CHINA IN THE DOCUMENT, IT REFERS TO PREVENTING CHINA FROM BEING ABLE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE FREE REIN AND RELATIONSHIPS IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE.

THE CHALLENGE THERE IS IN ORDER TO HAVE INFLUENCE WITH COUNTRIES, YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T GO AROUND INSULTING THEM AS YOU NOTED WITH NATO ALLIES AND THE TRUMP WHITE HOUSE HAS NOT BEEN PARTICULARLY CONSISTENT IN RESPECTING AND VALUING COUNTRIES IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE WHO ARE OUR PARTNERS AND ALLIES.

AND WHO WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE TO RESIST CHINESE INFLUENCE.

>> THIS IDEA OF NOT BEING CONSISTENT IS CLEARLY CATNIP TO THOSE WHO ARE CONSISTENT TO PUTIN, TO XI.

THEY ARE CONSISTENT IN THEIR POLICIES.

THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WANT AND THEY ARE GOING FOR IT.

PUTIN DEMONSTRATES THIS TO PRESIDENT TRUMP EVERY SINGLE DAY.

THEY SAID HIS RIGHT HAND MAN HAS SAID THIS DOCTRINE, MOSTLY ALIGNS WITH OUR VISION FOR WHAT'S GOING ON.

SO, HOW THREATENED SHOULD EUROPE FEEL AND AMERICA, FRANKLY, BY GIVING THIS KIND OF SUCKER TO PUTIN, ESPECIALLY NOW.

AND WE WILL TALK ABOUT THE TALKS AROUND UKRAINE.

>> IF YOU ARE SIN CYNICALS, YOU WOULD THINK THEY WERE RUSSIAN TALKING POINTS.

CHINA'S TRADE WITH LATIN AMERICA IN CHINA WAS $12 BILLION.

THE IDEA THAT CHINA WILL GET SHUT OUT OF THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE LOOKS LIKE A PIPE DREAM.

I SUSPECT SOME OF THIS IS AROUND HOW RUSSIA FITS INTO HOW THE U.S.

SEE IT IS NEW GLOBAL WORLD ORDER.

THE ORDER IS NOT JUST OBSOLETE, HE SAYS BUT ACTS AGAINST U.S.

INTEREST.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT IS TRUE?

IS THAT FACTUALLY TRUE?

>> I THINK THAT YOU COULD MAKE THE CASE.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN IN MY LIFETIME.

THE UNITED STATES THIS POWERFUL.

AND THIS WILLING TO USE COVERSION GLOBALLY.

TO SOME EXTENT, IT IS DIFFERENT, A U.S.

LEADER WHO LOOKS LIKE HE IS WILLING TO USE FORCE, THAT LOOKS BAD.

WHETHER HE DOES IT THAT IS A SEPARATE BELIEF OF WHAT WILL ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

BUT IN A WORLD WHERE CHINA USES COERCION QUITE AGGRESSIVELY AND RUSSIA.

PREDATORS AND CARNIVORES, BEING VEGETARIAN IS NOT HELPFUL.

SO WE NEED TO EMERGE MORE IN EUROPE AND JUST BE A TRADE BLOCK.

MAYBE TRUMP WILL PUSH IT TOGETHER LIKE HOW HE HELPED SAFE NATO BY MISTAKE.

>> IT IS CLEAR CHINA IS THE RISING SUPERPOWER.

MAYBE IT ALREADY IS.

THERE ARE ARGUMENTS WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL SECURITY GROUP ABOUT HOW BEST TO DEAL WITH CHINA.

BUT, DO YOU THINK THAT RUBIO WAS RIGHT?

THAT THE POST WORLD ORDER IS NOT HELPFUL TO THE UNITED STATES?

>> IN THE DEFENSE, THAT IS CLEARLY NOT THE CASE.

I ALREADY REFERRED TO THE NETWORK OF BASES THAT ENABLE STRIKE AT REAL THREATS.

WHEREVER THEY MAY BE IN ASIA AND THE MIDDLE EAST.

THE HAGUE SUMMIT.

PRESIDENT TRUMP SUCCEEDED IN GETTING 5% COMMITMENT, GDP SPENDING ON DEFENSE.

THAT TREND WAS ALREADY IN THE WORKS AFTER RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE.

IN 24, 23 ALLIES HAD ALREADY MET OR WERE NEAR MEETING THE 2% COMMITMENT OF THE WALES PLEDGE.

SO, THE NOTION THAT SOMEHOW OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH EUROPE IN PARTICULAR AND ALSO, ALLIES AND PARTNERS IN ASIA PACIFIC ARE A NEGATIVE FOR AMERICAN SECURITY IS JUST UNDERMINED BY THE FACT.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE GROWTH OF ADVERSARIES AND THEIR STRENGTH, RUSSIA AND CHINA BY STRONG RELATIONSHIPS, THE STOCK PARTNERSHIP INS THE REGIONS OF EUROPE AND THE ASIAN PACIFIC, IT HELPS AMERICANS BE SAFER.

THE PARTNERSHIPS HELP TO PROTECT THE AMERICAN HOMELAND.

THAT IS THE PART THAT IS COMPLETELY MISSING IN THIS NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGY THAT HAS BEEN A COMMON ELEMENT OF STRATEGIES OF REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS FOR DECADES.

>> EVERY SINGLE ADMINISTRATION I THINK FOR A PERIOD OF YEARS HAS COME IN WITH THE NATIONAL SECURITY PROJECTIONS AND STRATEGIES LIKE THIS ONE.

IT IS A VISION OF WHAT THEY WANT.

BUT GIVEN THAT THIS IS VERY PUBLIC AND VERY ADD HOMONYM AND ALL SORTS OF HORRIBLE WORDS FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AGAINST HIS ALLIES.

THEY ARE TRYING TO RESCUE WHAT THEY CONSIDER A VERY UNBALANCED SO CALLED PEACE PLAN FOR RUSSIA UKRAINE.

TOP LEVEL MEETINGS HERE IN THE U.K.

DO YOU THINK, PETER, THAT IS HAPPENING THAT EUROPEANS, ALLIES SHOULD BE TRYING TO GO THEIR OWN WAY?

CAN THEY?

>> THERE IS IRONY IN ALL OF THIS.

HERE IT IS IN CHINESE SUPPLY CHAINS.

BECAUSE OF THE WAY THAT TRUMP TALKS AND IT HAS GONE BIPARTISAN NOW.

THIS IS A VERY STANDARD VIEW IN THE UNITED STATES.

IT IS NOT JUST TRUMP TALKING ABOUT EUROPE.

YOU START TO HEAR THIS FROM PEOPLE THAT WOULDN'T HAVE TALKED THIS WAY A FEW YEARS AGO, THE QUESTION NOW IS CAN WE RELY ON AMERICAN SUPPLY CHAINS?

ARE THERE POINTS THAT MIGHT GET TURNED OFF BY THE PRESIDENT AND THOSE AROUND HIM?

THAT SENSE OF VULNERABILITY MEANS WE ALL HAVE TO ACCEPT UP.

AND THAT GOES ONE OF TWO WAYS.

EITHER WE DO WHAT TRUMP IS SAYING.

WE DECAY AND BECOME IRRELEVANT OR THERE HAS TO BE REBIRTH AND REINFORCEMENT.

THAT HAS TO DO WITH DOMESTIC POLICY.

HOW DO WE STAND UP IN A WORLD OF CHANGES?

>> AND SO, CELESTE, I WANT TO REFER TO AN ARTICLE YOU WROTE A FEW MONTHS AGO, OR RATHER I THINK YOU TALKED ABOUT THIS.

IN RELATION TO WHAT PRESIDENT MACRON SAID THIS WEEK.

IT WAS REPORTED HE HAD WARNED OTHER EUROPEAN LEADERRERS THAT WASHINGTON MIGHT SOON BETRAY UKRAINE.

BEWARE THE EUROPE YOU WISH FOR YOU SAID.

SO, TO CONTINUE THIS BIT, EUROPEANS ARE GROWING A LITTLE BIT WARY AREN'T THEY, OF THE UNITED STATES.

CAN YOU SEE ANY SORT OF BIFURCATION?

>> WELL, WE ARE ALREADY SEEING EUROPEAN COUNTRIES RECONSIDER PURCHASES OF AMERICAN DEFENSE SYSTEMS.

WE ARE ALREADY STARTING TO SEE THAT.

IT IS CLEARLY THE CASE ANY KIND OF A PEACE SETTLEMENT BETWEEN RUSSIA AND UKRAINE.

THE WHITE HOUSE PRIORITIZES AND SAID THAT IS A MAJOR OCTAVE OF PRESIDENT TRUMP DEPENDS ON EUROPE BEING ON BOARD.

IT IS SIMPLY NOT THE TERMS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED ARE NOT ENFORCEMENT WITHOUT EUROPEAN AGREEMENT.

SO WHILE THE UNITED STATES, I HOPE WE DO NOT, OF BETRAYING UKRAINE AND THROWING THEM UNDER THE BUS AND LETTING THE KREMLIN JUST STEAM ROLL OVER THE COUNTRY, IN FACT, THAT REALLY CAN'T HAPPEN THE WAY THAT THE KREMLIN WANTS UNLESS EUROPE AGREES TO IT.

FOR EXAMPLE, KREMLIN WANTS NATO TO COMMIT THAT UKRAINE WILL NEVER BE A MEMBER OF NATO.

SO IT IS WITHIN THE HANDS OF EUROPEAN PUBLICS AND LEADER TO PLAY A ROLE IN A PEACE SETTLEMENT.

IF THAT IS AN IMPORTANT OBJECTIVE FOR THE WHITE HOUSE, THEY WOULD WORK WITH EUROPE TO GO TOGETHER FOR THAT STRONG NEGOTIATING POSITION.

I DO THINK WE ARE SEEING THOSE DIVERGENCES.

>> WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS TOPSY TURVY NEGOTIATION PROCESS GO?

>> I THINK THE UNITED STATES CAN'T FORCE A SETTLEMENT.

TRUMP CAN COMPLAIN AS MUCH AS HE LIKES BUT THIS WILL DEPEND ON WHAT UKRAINE WANTS.

AND THE TALKING POINTS TRUMP HAS BEEN WALKED INTO ON BEING PROMISED LOWER ENERGY PRICES.

ALL DEPENDS ON THINKING RUSSIA WILL BE A GOOD ACTOR IF THERE IS SOME KIND OF SETTLEMENT.

>> PETER AND CELESTE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

REALLY INTERESTING TO GET YOUR PERSPECTIVES ON ALL OF THIS.

>>> MEANTIME, TODAY, IN THE WAKE OF TRUMP'S SCORCHING CRITICISM OF EUROPEAN ALLIES THE U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO THE U.K.

VISITED, KEIR STARMER.

THERE WILL BE NO READ OUT OF THAT PARTICULAR CONVERSATION.

>>> NOW, SOON AFTER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PUBLISHED THAT NEW NATIONAL SECURITY STRATEGY, I MODERATED A PANEL OF INFLUENTIAL FOREIGN MINISTERS AT THE ANNUAL DOHA FORUM IN NEGOTIATIONS OVER THE WARS IN UKRAINE AND GAZA.

I STARTED BY ASKING QATAR'S FOREIGN MINISTER HOW HIS COUNTRY DESCRIBED AS A SMALL STATE IN A TURBULENT REGION, BECAME THE WORLD'S PREIMMINENT MEDIATOR.

>> I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE REGION IN GENERAL, IT IS NOT AN EASY REGION.

IT HAS A LOT OF HISTORY.

WITH VERY HEAVY BAGGAGE.

THE WAY QATAR IS SITUATED, WE HAVE ALSO TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR REGION IS PROSPEROUS AND STABLE.

AND BASICALLY, OUR NATIONAL SECURITY STANDS ON THE STABILITY OF THE REGION.

BUT AS A SMALL NATION, WE CANNOT BECOME A SUPERPOWER BY MILITARY.

BUT BY REACHING OUT THROUGH DIPLOMACY AND INVESTMENT THROUGH PARTNERSHIPS.

THAT IS WHAT CREATES THE FOOT FINGERPRINT OF THE STATE OF QATAR.

>> BEFORE I MOVE ON, THERE ARE SOME IN THE WORLD WHO SAY WHY DOES QATAR HOST HAMAS?

WHY DOES IT HOST THE TALIBAN?

WHY DOES IT HOST MANY PARTIES AND PEOPLES THAT SOME WOULD CONSIDER TERRORISTS OR BAD ACTORS.

CAN YOU GIVE THE WORLD THE RATIONALIZATION FOR THAT PART OF MEDIATION?

>> WHEN WE TALK MEDIATION, IT IS A CONFLICT BETWEEN PARTIES.

IF YOU HAVE LIKE STATE ACTORS, BUT, IN OUR REGION, IT IS BETWEEN STATES.

IF WE DON'T KEEP OPEN CHANNELS WITH THEM, NONE OF THE CONFLICTS CAN BE RESOLVED.

THIS HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED THE LAST FEW YEARS, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE ACHIEVED BY ENDING THE LONGEST WAR IN THE MODERN AMERICAN HISTORY BETWEEN THE U.S.

AND AFGHANISTAN, HOSTING THE OFFICE OF TALIBAN WAS FOR A SINGLE PURPOSE, TO FACILITATE THE MEDIATION EFFORTS.

THESE EFFORTS REMAIN ALMOST LIKE MORE THAN SEVEN YEARS.

IN ORDER TO ACHIEVE TO THAT RESULT.

HAMAS WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, THERE IS, YOU KNOW, ALL THE OUTCOMES THAT WE HAVE SEEN THROUGHOUT 23, 24, AND 25 REACHING TO THE PEACE DEAL.

WAS ONLY HAPPENING BECAUSE OF THIS OPEN COMMUNICATION.

QATAR IS CRITICIZED FOR HOSTING THEM.

JUST FOR SOME VERY SHORT.

THOSE PEOPLE CRITICIZING QATAR, THOSE ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO ARE IN NEED FOR COUNTRIES LIKE QATAR TO HAVE AN OPEN CHANNEL WITH THOSE STATE ACTORS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, QATAR PROVIDED THE FORUM FOR THOSE PARTIES TO TALK.

IT DOESN'T MEAN WE ARE TAKING ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

OUR ROLE IS TO MAKE SURE THE DIALOGUE IS ONGOING AND THE DIALOGUE COMES OUT WITH A CONSTRUCTIVE OUTCOME THAT ENDS THE CONFLICT AND THE HUMANITARIAN SUFFERING.

>> MEDIATION IS SO IMPORTANT.

THIS NEW STRATEGY DESCRIBES AN EXPEDITIOUS CESSATION HOSTILITIES IN UKRAINE.

HOW DO YOU READ THAT GIVEN THE CURRENT NEGOTIATIONS THAT ARE GOING ONTO TRY AND END THIS WAR?

>> YOU KNOW, WITH EUROPE, YOU CONSTANTLY ASK WHAT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SAYS OR WHAT IS THE FOREIGN POLICY OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND I THINK THAT WHAT WE SHOULD REALLY BE INTERESTED IN EUROPE IS WHAT WE CAN DO IN THIS VERY CHALLENGING MOMENT IN WAR HISTORY.

WHERE IN SOME COUNTRIES WAR HAS BECOME A NORMAL TOOL OF FOREIGN POLICY.

NOT THE ONLY ONE.

IN THE IDLE EAST, ISRAEL THINKS EXACTLY THE SAME WAY.

WE THINK THE OPPOSITE.

WE STICK TO THE UNICHARTER.

WE THINK THAT WAR IS NOT A WAY OF SETTLING DISPUTES AND THE WAR OF AGGRESSION CANNOT HAVE REWARD.

WHAT IS AT STAKE IN UKRAINE IS THE SOVEREIGNTY OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE WHICH IS HUGE.

WE ARE TALKING THE DEMOCRATIC ESTATE WITH A DEMOCRAT INCOMPETENTLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT.

WE ARE GOING TO GO WITH WHATEVER PEACE WILL COME WHAT DAY AND I'M SURE THERE IS A FUTURE IN PEACE FOR THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.

WE HAVE TO DESIGN THE FUTURE SUPREME COURT SCHEME IN EUROPE.

NO ONE WILL WITH OUT OF THE RISK OF WAKING UP AND REALIZING THAT THEIR STRONG NEIGHBOR WANTS A PART OF THEIR SOVEREIGNTY.

SO WE WELCOME THE EFFORTS OF THE UNITED STATES.

WE THINK IT IS GOOD.

WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR PEACE SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING.

IF IT WAS UP TO US, THE EUROPEANS, THE UKRAINIANS, THIS WAR WOULD HAVE NOT STARTED.

WE WANT PEACE.

WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS LASTING PEACE.

THAT THERE IS NO REWARD FOR THE AGGRESSION.

THAT THERE IS A SOVEREIGN IN UKRAINE THAT MAKES ITS OWN DECISION INCLUDING WHICH INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION IT IS A PART OF.

>> IN THE CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT, AND THE 20 POINT PLAN FOR ISRAEL GAZA, THERE WAS TALK OF MOVEING TO A PALESTINIAN STATE.

FOR THE SECOND TIME THIS YEAR, THEY BASICALLY, THEY DON'T WANT THAT TO HAPPEN.

AND PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU AND HIS FAR RIGHT ALLIES BOYCOTTED A VOTE THAT WAS TO MOVE THE PHASES ALONG.

BECAUSE OF THE REFERENCE IN THE PLAN TO THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT MEDIATION, HOW DO YOU GET BEYOND THAT KIND OF IDEOLOGY?

HOW DO YOU GET BEYOND THE HARD LINERS WHO DON'T WANT EVEN WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS PUT FORWARD?

>> HERE IS WHERE ENFORCEMENT IS NEEDED.

ONE OF THE LESSONS WE HAVE SEEN AND EXPERIENCED THROUGHOUT THE LAST TWO YEARS THAT ACCOUNTABILITY IS ABSENT.

AND ENFORCEMENT IS ABSENT.

THINGS CAN JUST KEEP GOING.

AND HOSTAGES ARE IN THE HANDS OF THE EXTREMISTS.

THAT IS WHAT WE WANT TO AVOID.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT, THE EFFORTS ALL OF US PUT TOGETHER IN ORDER TO REACH THE CEASEFIRE WE HAVE ACHIEVED THIS YEAR.

NEEDED FOR THE NEXT PHASE WHICH IS THE STABILIZATION.

IF THIS EXTREMIST AGENDA WILL JUST OVERSHADOW ALL OF OUR EFFORTS AS AN INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, THEN EVERYONE IS RECOGNIZING THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE STRUCTURE WE ARE WORKING THROUGH.

AND I BELIEVE THAT THE U.S.

IS KEY ROLE IN THIS.

BECAUSE U.S.

HAS ENFORCEMENT PART OF THAT IN ORDER TO PUT THIS CONFLICT.

>> IT IS TIME TO WORK.

TO PUT IN PLACE A REAL PALESTINIAN STATE.

THAT MEANS THE WEST BANK AND GAZA AND THEY ARE ONE SINGLE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.

WE HAVE TO STOP THE VIOLENCE OF AND WE HAVE TO STOP ALL THE ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS THAT ARE SPREADING.

WE HAVE TO GO FOR RECONSTRUCTION IN GAZA.

THE DAY WE HAVE ONE SINGLE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY THAT WILL CONTROL THE WEST BANK AND GAZA CONNECTED BY A CORRIDOR WITH AN EXIT TO THE SEA AND ITS CAPITAL IN JERUSALEM.

I THINK THEY WILL ACHIEVE WHAT EUROPE STANDS FOR.

AND IT IS PEACE.

AND THE RESPECT OF INTERNATIONAL LAW AND INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW.

>> WE ARE GOING BACK TO THE EUROPEAN WAR RIGHT NOW, THE 28- POINT PLAN THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP PUT FORTH A COUPLE OF WEEKENDS AGO WAS VIGOROUSLY AMENDED OR DISCUSSED BY EUROPE AND UKRAINE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WOULD YOU AGREE THAT EUROPE HAS NOT PUT A PEACE PLAN FORWARD FOR UKRAINE?

>> IN UKRAINE, THERE ARE NO BOTH PARTIES.

THERE IS ONE AGGRESSOR AND ONE VICTIM.

AND THAT IS WHY, YOU KNOW, IF WE WANT A SUSTAINABLE AND LONG LASTING PEACE, WE SHOULD MAKE SURE THAT THE CONCESSIONS ARE ON THE AGGRESSORS SIDE.

THAT THE AGGRESSION DOES NOT PAY OFF.

THAT IT IS NOT REWARDED.

THE LAST 100 YEARS, RUSSIA HAS ATTACKED 19 COUNTRIES.

SOME AS MANY OF THREE OR FOUR TIMES.

NONE OF THESE HAS EVER ATTACKED RUSSIA.

SO, PUTTING LIMITATIONS AND STRESS ON UKRAINE ACTUALLY DOES NOT BRING US LONG LASTING PEACE.

OKAY, WE GIVE SECURITY GUARANTEES TO UKRAINE.

IT WILL END THERE.

BUT IT WILL START SOMEWHERE ELSE.

BECAUSE THE PROBLEM IS THE RUSSIAN MILITARY, THEIR ARMY IS EXTREMELY LARGE, THEIR MILITARY BUDGET IS ENORMOUS, AND THEY WILL WANT TO USE IT AGAIN.

IF NOT ON UKRAINE, THEN SOMEWHERE ELSE.

FOCUSING ON REALLY PUTTING THE PRESSURE ON THE AGGRESSOR.

IF AGGRESSION IS REWARDED, WE WILL SEE IT HAPPEN AGAIN.

AND NOT ONLY IN UKRAINE OR GAZA, BUT ALL AROUND THE WORLD BECAUSE AGGRESSION PAYS OFF.

THAT IS WHY WE HAVE SO MANY LAWS THAT INTERNATIONAL LAW IS UNDER HEAVY FIRE.

>> THE QUESTION IS REALLY WHAT IS THE LEVERAGE YOU HAVE?

IF THE U.S.

IS PULLING BACK WHICH IT IS IN TERMS OF MAKING YOU STEP UP AND FILL THAT GAP CLEARLY PUTIN DOESN'T FEEL LEVERAGE.

>> WE HAVE LEVERAGE.

IT ENDS WHEN THE AGGRESSOR RUNS OUT OF MONEY.

>> CAN I ASK YOU, I THINK IT WAS TEN YEARS AGO, TURKEY SHOT DOWN INCURSION BY A RUSSIAN FIGHTER JET.

AND IT WAS FINE.

THE RULES OF THE WORLD WERE ESTABLISHED.

YOU SAID DON'T COME INTO OUR AIR SPACE.

THEY DID.

YOU SHOT THEM DOWN, BOOM, THAT WAS THE END OF THAT.

I KNOW YOU ARE NOT EUROPE.

MAYBE ONE DAY.

BUT RUSSIA UPPED THE ANTE THIS WEEK SAYS IT IS READY TO DECLARE WAR ON EUROPE RIGHT NOW.

WHAT SHOULD EUROPE DO TO PUSH PUTIN TO A REASONABLE NEGOTIATING POSITION?

>> I THINK EUROPE IS TRYING TO DO THEIR BEST TO COUNTER THIS AGGRESSION.

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE STARTED PARTNERING WITH THE UNITED STATES.

BUT NOW IN THE ABSENCE OF THE UNITED STATES, EUROPE IS IN NEED OF FINDING A MORE CREATIVE SOLUTION TO BECOME MORE RESILIENT.

BUT, I THINK THE ONLY VIABLE WAY TO GO AND FINISH THIS WAR IS TO ENGAGE FAITHFULLY AND FORCEFULLY IN PEACE TALKS.

>> AND, BY THE WAY, THERE WAS RECENT STUDY ABOUT THE PEACE, THE DIFFERENT PEACE TALKS.

IF WOMEN AROUND THE TABLE, THEN THE PEACE AGREEMENTS ACTUALLY LAST 35% MORE THAN THOSE WHERE WOMEN ARE NOT AT THE TABLE.

>> CLEARLY I WILL CLAP TO THAT.

IT'S A GREAT WAY TO INDEPENDENT.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH FOR THIS DISCUSSION.

THANK YOU.

>>> NOW, THE NEW YORKER MAGAZINE TURNS 100.

AND, IT IS CELEBRATING IN STYLE WITH A NEW NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY THAT TAKES US BEHIND THE SCENES FOLLOWING STAFF.

FROM PIECES LIKE THE HIROSHIMA REPORT TO SATIRICAL CARTOONS.

THE MAGAZINE HAS BEEN A PILLAR OF QUALITY JOURNALISM AND HAS REMAIN SO RELEVANT FOR 100 YEARS.

HERE IS A CLIP FROM THE TRAILER.

>> I THINK EVERYONE WHO WORKS AT THE NEW YORKER IS OBSESSED.

>> IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE WHACK- A-MOLE.

YOU THINK YOU ARE DONE BUT THINGS KEEP POPPING UP.

>> YES, CARTOONS GET FACT CHECKED.

>> THE CATS NAMES ARE TIGER, LOVER BOY AND GUMMY BEAR.

IS THAT CORRECT?

>> PEOPLE WANT FAIRNESS AND FACT CHECKING AND THEY WANT MEDIA OUTLETS THAT ARE NOT KNUCKLING UNDER.

>> THE COVER NEED TO SPEAK TO THE MOMENT, BUT ALSO BE A TIMELESS PIECE OF ART.

>> DAVID REMLICK IS THE NEW YORKER'S LONG TIME EDITOR AND JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT ITS PRECARIOUS BEGINNING TO ITS SIGNIFICANCE TODAY.

>> YOU HAD NETFLIX COME DO A DOCUMENTARY ON YOU PUTTING TOGETHER THE HUNDREDTH ANNIVERSARY ISSUE.

ONE OF THE THINGS IN THE SHOW IS THEY ASK CELEBRITIES TO SAY LITTLE VIGNETTES.

WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU ENCOUNTERED THE NEW YORKER.

LET US SHOW THE CLIP AND THEN I WILL ASK YOU THAT QUESTION.

>> WE DIDN'T HAVE VERY MUCH MONEY.

BUT WE HAD A NEW YORKER SUB CONTRIBUTION.

>> FIRST TIME I HEARD ABOUT THE NEW YORKER WAS ON SIGN FELLED.

THEY HAD A GREAT EPISODE WHERE ELAINE DID NOT UNDERSTAND ONE OF THE CARTOON CAPTIONS.

>> I GREW UP IN NEW JERSEY AND WAS VERY KIND OF LIKE STARRY EYED ABOUT ALL THINGS NEW YORK.

THE FIRST TIME I EVER HEARD OF THE NEW YORKER AND UNDERSTOOD IT TO BE THIS IMPORTANT MAGAZINE WAS IN AN AN EPISODE OF THE CRITIC.

>> I DON'T KNOW HOW I KNEW ABOUT IT BUT IT IS JUST THERE.

IT'S LIKE SAYING WHEN DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THE STATUE OF LIBERTY?

>> WHEN DID YOU ENCOUNTER THE NEW YORKER?

>> IN MY FATHER'S OFFICE.

HE WAS A DENTIST.

SATURDAYS AND SUNDAYS IT WIZ CLOSED AND I WOULD GO READ HIGHLIGHTS MAGAZINE AND TIME MAGAZINE AND LIFE AND I ENCOUNTERED THIS THING THAT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND.

IT HAD DRAWINGS ON THE COVER AND GAG CARTOONS.

AND, IN THOSE DAYS A LOT OF ADVERTISEMENTS.

AND I DIDN'T QUITE GET IT, WALTER, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.

WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER, MY FAVORITE MAGAZINES WERE THE INFINITELY COOLER ROLLING STONE AND I LIKED THE VILLAGE VOICE A LOT.

HAPPENING.

I GOT TO THE NEW YORKER AND GOT TO UNDERSTAND IT AND GET A FEEL FOR IT WHEN I HAD A TEACHER IN COLLEGE WHO WROTE FOR THE NEW YORKER.

>> AND THAT WOULD BE JOHN MCFEE.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

JOHN WHO THESE DAYS IS 93.

HE MADE ME INTO ONE OF HIS FISHES BUDDIES.

>> YOU CALL THE MAGAZINE A MIRACLE.

>> IT IS A MIRACLE.

FIRST OF ALL, MOST PUBLICATIONS, IF THEY ARE LUCKY, IF THEY ARE LUCKY, HAVE A MOMENT IN TIME WHEN THEY ARE IMPORTANT.

WHERE THEY CATCH THE ZEITGEIST IN SOME WAY.

IT WAS AN ASTONISHING THING.

LIFE MAGAZINE HAD A MOMENT BECAUSE OF ITS VISUAL NATURE THAT PRECEDED TELEVISION.

WHEN TV CAME ALONG, LIFE WAS ECLIPSED.

SO TO HAVE SOMETHING LAST 100 YEARS, THAT IS SOMETHING QUITE UNUSUAL IN AMERICAN CULTURE.

AND NEWSPAPERS OBVIOUSLY, THE NEW YORK TIMES HAS THIS.

SO WE ARE CELEBRATING SOMETHING OF THE THING THAT'S HAVE BEEN PUBLISHED IN THE PAST.

BUT A LOT OF TIME HAS BEEN SPENT THINKING ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO BE AHEAD FOR US.

>> YOU ONLY HAD FIVE EDITORS IN THOSE 100 YEARS.

TOTALLY AMAZING.

AND I THINK MY FIRST ENCOUNTER WITH THE NEW YORKER BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I HAD A FAVORITE BOOK CALL FIRST-DEGREE YEARS WITH ROSS BY JAMES THURBER AND I TALKED ABOUT HAROLD ROSS AND HOW HIS PERSONALITY IMPRINT FIRST-DEGREE DNA OF THE NEW ED.

>> HE IS SOMEBODY WHO MADE HIS WAY HERE.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE ITEM IN NEW ORLEANS?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

HE BOUNCED AROUND.

HE MUST HAVE BEEN IN A NEWSPAPER EVERY SING MONTHS.

HE REALLY BOUNCED AROUND A LOT.

CAME TO NEW YORK.

AND HE HAD IDEA FOR ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

SHIPPING NEWS, AND THERE WAS THIS IDEA TO HAVE A COSMOPOLITAN NEWS MAGAZINE AND MAINLY COMIC AT FIRST.

AND, HE GOT A FAMILY, THE FLEISHMAN FAMILY WHO MADE MONEY IN YEAST TO PUT DOLLARS BEHIND THIS IDEA AND AT FIRST IT WAS A BIG FLOP.

IT WAS NOT GOOD.

AND IT WAS A FINANCIAL FAILURE AS WELL.

AND THEY ALMOST SHUT THE THING DOWN AND HAROLD ROSS WHO IS A BIT OF A CARD PLAYER WAS FAMILIAR WITH THE BOTTLE OCCASIONALLY.

IN AN ALL NIGHT POKER GAME NEARLY LOST THE WHOLE THING.

SO IT IS A MIRACLE IT LASTED TO 1926 MUCH LESS 2025.

>> HE SAID IT WASN'T FOR THE THEY HAD A CARTOON WHERE THEY HAD TO HAVE HAROLD ROSS GO APOLOGIZE TO HIS AUNT.

WHAT DID HE MEAN BY THAT AND IS THAT STILL WHAT THE MAGAZINE IS ABOUT?

>> I THINK HE WANTED IT FOR A PARTICULAR COMMUNITY.

IT WASN'T EVEN REALLY, THE COMMUNITY DIDN'T EVEN EXTEND TO THE BROOKLYN OR BRONX.

IT WAS A VERY JAZZ AGE IDEA.

IT HAS SINCE EXPANDED IN ITS SERIOUSNESS AND REPORTING AND LENGTH AND AMBITIONS.

I DON'T THINK HAROLD ROSS MANAGED A MAGAZINE THAT WOULD BREAK THE AB U GAHRIB SCANDAL OR HIROSHIMA.

I WANT IT ON THE RECORD I'M HAPPY TO HAVE ANYONE IN DEBUKE READING THE NEW YORKER.

IT IS FOR WHOEVER HAS EYES TO SEE AND READ.

SO MY ATTITUDE ABOUT THAT I >> HE IS SUCCEEDED BY HIS DEPUTY.

AND HE DID NOT SEEM TO HAVE A GREAT SENSE OF HUMOR, BUT HE HAD A FEEL FOR THE LONG.

>> FORM.

>> HE DID AND HE WAS ROSS' DEPUTY FOR A LONG TIME.

JUST AS KATHERINE ANGEL INTRODUCED TOP LEVEL FICTION TO THE NEW YORKER.

WILLIAM SEAN PLAYED AN INSTRUMENTAL ROLE IN BRINGING DEEP REPORTING.

IT WAS THE PIECE ABOUT HIROSHIMA.

RACHEL CARSON ON PESTICIDES AND JAMES BALDWIN ON RACE AND SO ON.

AND SO, IT ALSO SHOWS YOU THAT A MAGAZINE, A PUBLICATION, ANY IMAGINATIVE PROCESS THAT IS NOT JUST INDIVIDUAL IS A COLLECTION OF INTELLIGENCES THAT COME TOGETHER AND I THINK A GOOD EDITOR IS NOT SOMEBODY THAT BELIEVES HE OR SHE HAS THE ANSWER TO EVERYTHING AND THE ONLY PERSON WHO IS GENERATING IDEAS.

>> YOU MENTIONED HIROSHIMA.

IT WAS AT THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY, THAT'S WHAT I DO FOR FUN AND THAT'S WHERE YOUR ARCHIVES ARE AND THEY HAVE A DISPLAY OF ALL THE ARCHIVES AND I SAW ON THE WALL A MOST AMAZING LETTER.

I TOOK A PHOTOGRAPH OF IT.

IT SAYS DEAR BILL.

DO YOU THINK YOU COULD TOLERATE FOUR PARTS ON HIROSHIMA?

I CAN'T SAY OF MY MATERIAL ON THE BOMBING THAT IT IS WONDERFUL.

BUT IT IS SOBERS, MOVING AND NEWSY.

I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYONE CALLING MR.

SHAWN DEAR BILL.

THE REST OF THAT LETTER WAS AN AMAZING LEAP.

>> IT WAS AT THAT TIME.

A LEAP THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN INNUMERABLE TIMES VERY OFTEN A REPORTER WILL COME BACK FROM WHERE HE OR SHE HAS BEEN AND THEY HAVE A STORY TO DELL TELL THAT IS BEYOND THE IMAGINING OF ANY REPORTER.

HE HAD WITNESSED SOMETHING THAT HAD NOT BEEN PUBLICIZED AT ALL EXCEPT IN THE MOST ABSTRACT WAY.

THE HUMAN COST ON THE GROUND HAD NOT BEEN SEEN IN THE UNITED STATES SO WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE FOREIGN JOURNALISTS ARE NOT ALLOWED INTO GAZA.

YET AT THE SAME TIME, WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF INNUMERABLE IMAGES BECAUSE OF THE PHONE AND GOD BLESS THEM, JOURNALISTS IN GAZA.

AND BLESS THE MEMORY OF THOSE SO HORRIBLY KILLED.

THAT WAS A DIFFERENT WORLD.

THAT WAS NOT A WORLD OF SOCIAL MEDIA AND VIDEOS ON YOUR PHONE.

AND PERCY BROUGHT THAT HUMAN NEWS TO THE UNITED STATES AND IT MADE INTERNATIONAL NEWS.

IT HAD INCREDIBLE RESONANCE.

>> IN THIS NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY, TINA BROWN, YOUR PREDECESSOR PLAYS A BIG ROLE AND TALKED ABOUT HAVING KIND OF DUSTED OFF AND SWEEPED OFF THE COBWEBS.

FELL ME WHAT SHE DID.

>> YOU WANT TO BE CAREFUL AT ANY GIVEN MOMENT AND TIME THAT YOU ARE NOT JUST ADMIRED BUT ACTUALLY READ.

AND THERE COMES A TIME IN THE LIFE OF ANY LONG STANDING PUBLICATION WHERE YOU CAN FALL INTO HABITS.

OR SELF-SATISFACTION.

THERE IS NO QUESTION THE NEW YORKER WAS PUBLISHING GREAT THINGS.

BUT TINA HAD AN OUTSIDER SENSE OF HOW TO SHAKE THINGS UP.

WE ARE NOT THE SAME PEOPLE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT WE MAKE ABSOLUTELY EVERY EDITORIAL DECISION THE SAME.

I WAS BEHIND THIS IDEA OF SHAKING THINGS UP AND SHE MADE MY LIFE A LOT EASIER.

>> WHEN YOU CAME IN, SHE MADE YOUR LIFE EASIER SHAKING THINGS UP.

WHAT DID YOU FEEL YOU HAD TO CHANGE AND WHAT MARK ARE YOU PUTTING ON IT?

>> IT HAS BEEN 27 YEARS, WALTER, TO BE HONEST AND I MIGHT BE THE WORST JUDGE OF WHATEVER MY TERM IS.

BECAUSE I'M SORT OF IN THE THICK OF IT.

YOU DON'T ALWAYS SEE BACKWARDS VERY WELL WHEN LOOKING FORWARD ALL THE TIME.

ONE OF THEM HAS TO BE HOW DID THE NEW YORKER ACCOMMODATE TO THE MODERN MEDIA AGE?

HOW DID IT TAKE ON THE INTERNET?

OR AUDIO AND VIDEO?

JUST A DIFFERENT VELOCITY.

HOW DO WE EXIST IN THE WORLD?

WHAT IS OUR VOICE IN IT?

THAT HAS ALL TAKEN A LOT OF ATTENTION AND A LOT OF WORK.

>> ONE OF THE TAKES WAS ABOUT BEING VERY MODERN AND VERY TRADITIONAL.

AS YOU QUOTE SOMEBODY AS SAYING ELITE MOTHER SOMETHING OR OTHER.

AND SO, HE SAID YES.

THEY ACTUALLY RAN THE WORD.

>> MAYBE BY PUTTING THAT ACCENTED PROVES THEIR CASE THAT WE ARE SUCH THAT PHRASE.

>> ONE OF THE MOST ICONIC ASPECTS OF THE NEW YORKER IS THE MAGAZINEST COVER.

I WANTED TO HAVE A LOOK AT THE ART EDITOR.

DISCUSSING WHAT GOES INTO DECIDING THE COVER.

SO LET'S LOOK AT THIS CLIP.

>> UNTIL YOU HAVE THE COVER, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IS THE PERSONALITY OF THE ISSUE IS.

YOU KNOW.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN JUST SLAP ON AT THE LAST MINUTE.

A COVER NEEDS TO SPEAK TO THE MOMENT.

BUT ALSO, BE A TIMELESS PIECE OF ART.

IT SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE FRAMED AND PUT ON THE WALL.

CHASING THAT WEEK AFTER WEEK KEEPS ME UP WITH ANXIETY EVEN >> WHAT ARE YOUR ELEMENTS WHERE YOU SAY YES, THAT'S THE ONE?

>> IT HAS TO WORK THE WAY A GRENADE WORKS.

YOU CAN'T, IF YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT FOR FIVE MINUTES WHAT'S GOING ON, OR YOU HAVE TO HAVE EXPLANATIONS ABOUT WHY THIS MAY OR MAY NOT BE GOOD, IT DOESN'T WORK.

IT HAS TO WORK IMMEDIATELY.

PEOPLE INTERPRET A JOKE OR IMAGE IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND THAT IS FINE.

THAT'S GREAT.

BUT IF YOU ARE PUZZLING OVER IT AS IF IT WERE AN OBSCURE DRAWING THAT DOESN'T QUITE WORK, THERE IS A PROBLEM.

SO IT IS BASICALLY A TWO PERSON OPERATION.

SHE IS GENERATING IDEAS ALL THE TIME AND SKETCHES AND THEN SHE COMES TO ME AND WE DISCUSS WHAT WE LIKE AND WHAT WE DON'T LIKE.

AND ONCE IN A WHILE, IF I'M ON THE FENCE, I'LL TAKE THAT SKETCH AROUND THE OFFICE TO A FEW PEOPLE THAT I TRUST AND WE WILL MAKE A DECISION.

>> ONE OF THE THING THAT'S HAPPEN INS THIS DOCUMENTARY, YOU ARE ALWAYS WALKING THE HALLS.

HOW IMPORTANT IS IT IN THIS DAY AND AGE TO BE BACK IN THE OFFICE, SO TO SPEAK?

>> LOOK, I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT.

I THINK IT IS OKAY THERE IS GREATER FLEXIBILITY THAN THERE WAS PREPANDEMIC BUT THE ACT OF BEING IN THE SAME ROOM WITH SOMEBODY, BUMPING INTO PEOPLE AND HAVING CASUAL CONVERSATIONS YOU DIDN'T EXPECT TO HAVE IS INFINITELY BETTER THAN THE BUSINESS OF TEXTING SOMEONE.

CAN WE TALK LATER?

IT IS JUST NOT AS SPONTANEOUS OR PRODUCTIVE.

THIS IS A COLLABORATIVE PIECE OF WORK.

WRITING IS NOT.

WRITING IS, SOME POOR SOUL ALL ALONE IN HER OFFICE OR ROOM.

WHEREVER IT IS TRYING TO APPLY FRONT OF THEM.

THAT IS HARD WORK.

BUT IN TERMS OF THE MAKING OF THE PUBLICATION.

THE IDEAS WE WILL BE VISITING SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR FROM NOW, THAT TO ME REALLY BENEFITS BY BEING IN ROOMS TOGETHER WITH OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.

IT IS AMAZING TO THINK THAT THIS IS UNDER SUCH CHALLENGE.

BUT I THINK TIME WILL BEAR THAT OUT.

>> THERE AREN'T THAT MANY PLACES THAT DO THIS KIND OF SUPERLABOR INTENSIVE SUPER CONFRONTING JOURNALISM.

I MEAN, THEY ARE NOT ACTIVISTS BUT THEY ARE FEARLESS WHEN THE FACTS SUPPORT IT.

>> ONE OF MY FAVORITE THINGS IN NEW YORK IS TALK OF THE TOWN AND ONE OF THE GREAT WRITERS WAS EB WHITE WHO MASTERED THAT ART AND MY FAVORITE IS SOMETHING HE WROTE WHICH IS WE RECEIVED A LETTER WRITERS WAR BARD THE OTHER DAY ASKING FOR A STATEMENT ON THE MEANING OF DEMOCRACY.

THAT IS A BEAUTIFUL PIECE HE WRITES.

VERY DRY AND CLEVER.

THAT IS ONE OF THE CAUSES OF THE NEW YORKER.

>> IT ABSOLUTELY IS.

I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP.

I WATCH YOUR SHOW AND I WOULD SAY THE SAME OF YOUR PROGRAM.

IS THAT DEMOCRACY TO SAY THE VERY, VERY LEAST IS UNDER GREAT CHALLENGE NOW.

IT IS UNDER GREAT CHALLENGE FROM ABOVE ALL, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND THAT'S NOT JUST SOMETHING TO SAY.

THAT IS SOMETHING TO DO RIGOROUS JOURNALISM ABOUT.

FAIR MINDED, RIGOROUS, ACCURATE JOURNALISM.

BUT DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS INCLUDING YOUR OWN, BY THE WAY, PUBLIC TELEVISION, ARE UNDER ASSAULT.

DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTION OURSELVES TO STAND UP FOR IT AND DO THE WORK THAT WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DOING AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL TIRELESSLY.

AND WITHOUT COMPROMISE.

WHEN I SAY WITHOUT COMPROMISE, I DON'T MEAN JUST IN SOME SORT OF VITRIOLIC WAY, BUT REPORTING.

THE LIONS SHARE OF PEOPLE WERE NOT PEOPLE WHO HAD TAKEN OUT A NOTEBOOK IN TEN YEARSMENT THEY HAD THINGS TO SAY.

THEY WERE TALKING HEADS, COMEDIANS.

BUT AT THE HEART OF THE ENTERPRISE OF JOURNALISM IS REPORTING.

FINDING OUT WHAT IS TRUE.

WHAT IS HIDDEN.

AND BRINGING IT TO LIGHT.

AND APPLYING THE REAL STANDARDS OF TRUTH AS BEST YOU CAN IN A GIVEN TIME KNOWING YOU WILL HONEST ABOUT OUR FAILURES AS WELL.

THAT IS AT THE CENTER OF OR WORK, TOO.

WE ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES TO BE SURE, NOT EVEN REMOTELY.

IF THAT SOUNDS SANCTIMONIOUS, I DON'T REALLY CARE.

>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU WALTER.

>> AND HE IS RIGHT.

IT IS ALL ABOUT REPORTING.

AND FINALLY, AS THE CLOCK STRUCK MIDNIGHT IN SYDNEY, MILLIONS OF AUSTRALIAN ADOLESCENTS ARE NOW LOCK OUT OF THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS.

FROM FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, AND SNAP CHAT TO TIKTOK, X, AND YOUTUBE.

THE SWEEPING GOVERNMENT BAN AIMS TO SHIELD UNDER 16s FROM HARMFUL CONTENT ONLINE GROOMING AND CYBER BULLYING.

SOME SAY THIS IS LONG OVERDUE.

CRITICS HOWEVER WARN THAT IT COULD ISOLATE YOUNG PEOPLE AND DRIVE THEM TOWARD EVEN MORE UNREGULATED CORNERS OF THE INTERNET.

THIS IS WHAT THE PRIME MINISTER HAD TO SAY.

AND LISTENING TO THE COMMUNITY.

AND I WANT TO SEE KIDS OFF THEIR DEVICES AND OUT IN THE FIELDS AND THE SWIMMING POOLS AND THE TENNIS COURTS.

WE WANT THEM TO HAVE REAL EXPERIENCES WITH REAL PEOPLE.

>> AND MANY COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD WILL BE WATCHING CLOSELY WITH AUSTRALIA BEING CAST AS THE FIRST DOMINO IN LONG OVERDUE SOCIAL MEDIA REGULATION DEMANDED BY SO MANY.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT.

SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.