AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight: the shifting vaccine.. only changing recommendations for existing shots,# but also creating barriers to developing new ones.

DR.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, University of#Minnesota: Children are going to die in this country#needlessly.

Children are going to die in this country# needlessly.

More and more are going to die## because of what's happening here.# These are not harmless policies.

AMNA NAWAZ: Repeated Russian attacks# on Ukrainian infrastructure leaves## millions to face record-setting# cold temperatures without power.

KATERYNA PIONTOVSKYA, Kyiv Resident# (through translator): We stand strong## because we want victory.

Nothing will break us,## not the cold or hunger.

We're ready to# survive anything.

We're not giving up.

GEOFF BENNETT: And we remember# civil rights leader Jesse Jackson,## who died after a lifetime spent advocating# for the poor and confronting injustice.

(BREAK) AMNA NAWAZ: Welcome to the "News Hour."

Geneva, Switzerland, played host today to not one,## but two rounds of high-level talks aimed at# resolving two separate international disputes.

GEOFF BENNETT: We start with Iran and a U.S.# official who told Reuters that progress was made## in roughly three hours of indirect talks# over limiting Tehran's nuclear program.

U.S.

special envoy Steve Witkoff and President# Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner laid out their## case today with mediators from Oman.

Speaking# to reporters following the talks, Iran's## foreign minister said a new window has opened for# reaching an agreement, though more work is needed.

ABBAS ARAGHCHI, Iranian Foreign Minister (through# translator): We have a clearer picture of what## needs to be done and what needs to be done# down the road.

Of course, both sides still## have positions that need to be brought closer# together, but at least now we have a set of## guiding principles and a clearer path to follow.

GEOFF BENNETT:## Meantime, Iranian officials temporarily# closed the Strait of Hormuz for live-fire## military exercises broadcast# on Iranian state television.## The strait is responsible for the transit# of around 20 percent of the world's oil.

It comes as the Pentagon has added# more naval firepower to the Middle## East in recent weeks with another# aircraft carrier, the USS Gerald Ford,## still en route.

Back in Geneva, U.S.# negotiators Witkoff and Kushner also## brokered the first of two days of talks# with officials from Ukraine and Russia.

Russian state media described the talks# as tense.And Ukraine's delegation has## said they approached the meeting without# excessive expectations as the four-year## anniversary of Russia's invasion looms next week.

A federal judge has ordered# the Trump administration to## restore a slavery-related exhibit at George# Washington's former home in Philadelphia.

MAN: I have great news.

We# just won in federal court.

(CHEERING) GEOFF BENNETT: Supporters celebrated# the ruling outside the co.. calling it a tremendous victory.

Last month, National Park Service workers# took down displays that describe the local## history of slavery on the site, including the# nine enslaved people Washington kept there.

In her decision, Judge Cynthia Rufe cited author# George Orwell's dystopian novel "1984," arguing## the Trump administration does not have the power# to, in her words, disassemble historical truths.

Repair work is underway to fix a# sewer line on the Potomac River,## even as the political battle is raging over what's# been called one of the largest sewage spills in## U.S.

history.

In a social media post today, Mr.# Trump called on the governors of Maryland and## Virginia and the mayor of Washington, D.C., to# -- quote -- "get to work immediately," adding:## "If they can't do the job, they have to# call me and ask politely to get it fixed."

A day earlier, the president placed blame# directly on Maryland Governor Wes Moore,## who fired back, saying the president has his# facts wrong again.

The busted pipe is under## the jurisdiction of a D.C.-based water# authority and the federal government.## The president has directed# FEMA to assist in the cleanup.

In Georgia, a public school in the city# of Savannah is mourning the death of a## special education teacher, Linda Davis, who# was killed in a car crash that involved a## man fleeing ice agents.

The Department of# Homeland Security says Guatemala native## Oscar Vasquez-Lopez tried to evade a traffic stop# early yesterday and collided with Davis' vehicle.

Police charged Lopez with first# degree homicide and reckless driving,## among others.

In a statement, the school's# principal called Davis a beloved member of## its community, saying her contributions to# the students and staff will not be forgotten.

The top spokesperson for the Department of# Homeland Security is stepping down.

The person## familiar with the decision confirms to the "News# Hour" that Tricia McLaughlin will be leaving the## administration next week.

The source says her# departure had been planned since December, but## McLaughlin stayed on following the fatal shootings# of Renee Good and Alex Pretty in Minneapolis.

In her time at DHS, McLaughlin became known as# one of the most vocal defenders of President## Trump's deportation campaign.

Her# exit comes amid growing public## disapproval of the administration's# hard-line immigration policies.

Netflix is granting Warner Bros.

Discovery# a seven day waiver to restart takeover## talks with Paramount.

Warner Bros.

had# already backed a deal for Netflix to## buy its studio and streaming business.# Now Paramount has until Monday to come## up with what they're calling a best# and final offer to upend that deal.

In the meantime, the Warner Bros.

board# is advising shareholders to stick with## the Netflix offer.

Its stock ended# the day more than 2 percent higher.

Elsewhere on Wall Street today, stocks# ended largely unchanged.

The Dow Jones## industrial average gained around# 30 points on the day.

The Nasdaq## added about 30 points.

The S&P# 500 also posted a modest gain.

Several major celebrations and religious# observances are overlapping today.

Let's start## on the streets of New Orleans and Mardi Gras.# Marching bands and floats cruised the streets## of the Big Easy with the traditional tossing# of beads and candy to revelers.

Mardi Gras is,## of course, French for Fat Tuesday, the last# day before Christians begin the season of Lent.

In Egypt, shoppers stocked up on treats and# decorations as Muslims prepare to enter the## holy month of Ramadan.

Those observing the# traditional fast will abstain from eating,## drinking and other activities# during daylight hours.

And, in Beijing, traditional lion dancers# marked the lunar new year holiday and the## start of the year of the horse.

Millions# will be traveling to visit family,## exchanging gifts and taking steps to# ensure good luck for the year ahead.

And in Winter Olympic action today, Team# USA made the podium in several big events,## but came up short in others.

A warning, some# spoilers are ahead.

The U.S.

men won silver in## the speed skating team pursuit, while the women's# team barely missed a medal, coming in fourth.

Mac Forehand secured another silver for Team# USA in an epic free ski big air final amid## practically blizzard conditions.# And in the men's two-man bobsled,## it was a fourth place finish for the# U.S., while Germany swept the event,## winning gold, silver and bronze# for their second straight Olympics.

Looking at the total medal count,# the U.S.

remains in third place## with 21 medals behind host nation# Italy and overall leader Norway.

Still to come on the "News Hour": how# the Justice Department is being reshaped## by controversial priorities# and widespread resignations;## Stephen Colbert calls out CBS for blocking# an interview with a Democratic candidate;## and a new book aims to help readers see Toni# Morrison's literary genius with fresh eyes.

AMNA NAWAZ: The U.S.

Food and Drug Administration# announced recently it will not review Moderna's## mRNA flu vaccine despite late-stage# trials showing it was safe and effective.

The rejection of the experimental flu# application, at least for now, has many in## and outside the industry concerned about the Trump# administration's approach to vaccine development## and recommendations.

It's the latest move that# reflects Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

's## criticism of mRNA technology, which was used by# Moderna and Pfizer to combat the coronavirus.

Michael Osterholm is the director of the# Center for Infectious Disease Research## and Policy at the University of# Minnesota, and he joins me now.

Dr.

Osterholm, welcome back to the# "News Hour."

Thanks for being with us.

DR.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, Director, University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research: Thank you very much.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, let's start# with Moderna's flu vaccine.

For those who don't follow this very closely, why# exactly is this decision causing some concern?

DR.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM: Well, first of# all, let me just say that the work that## was done by Moderna actually was really# well done and should have been reviewed.## It's an important step forward to# have an mRNA vaccine for influenza.

What happened was, despite the vast majority of# the FDA staff supporting it, a single individual,## Dr.

Prasad, basically decided against approving# it coming forward.

And this sent chills up## the spines of all of us in public health and# the vaccine world because it's so arbitrary.

There was absolutely no basis for which to do# this.

And this really leaves other manufacturers## concerned about what might their future directions# be in terms of confusion and recommendations.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, just for context here,## you mentioned there's one FDA official who# overruled career scientist.. the review go forward.

How often# does something like that happen?

DR.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM: It rarely happens.

And, more importantly, when it does happen,## there's -- the data are presented as to why.# There this -- there was no data presented,## other than to say that they had not tested the# vaccine against the basic best vaccine out there,## which is one that's only licensed# for those 65 years of age and older.

They actually did test up against the vaccine# that the vast majority of Americans in this## country received every year.

So that's just# an artificial reason for not going forward## with this vaccine.

And I think the only# thing it speaks to is the ideology issue.

We're now running the science component of# public health on ideology, not on facts.

AMNA NAWAZ: And so this concern that they# raised, you touched on briefly there.

The## FDA said that it rejected the application# because it considered the trials too## risky for older Americans.

You're saying# those risks are not real or significant.

DR.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM: Well, first# of all, what could have happened is,## if in fact they didn't have the data for over 65,# they could surely license it for those under 65,## because that's the standard vaccine# that we are getting in this country. '

And so, from that standpoint, that didn't# make any sense.

They also did do testing to## look at how well their vaccine worked in terms# of providing immune response and found that it## was superior to the high-dose vaccine.

So there# just really was no basis for this.

There was## no prior warning that they were going to apply# this new standard that they did to this vaccine.

And this is what's sending chills up# and down the spines of all of us in## public health.

We don't know how we're# going to get new vaccines in the future,## when they're so arbitrarily# decided upon by the agency.

AMNA NAWAZ: You have said that twice# now.

It's a powerful statement that## it sent chills up and down the spines# of those in public health.

What are## you hearing from those in the# world of developing vaccines?

DR.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM: Right now, we're# seeing on a global basis a retrenchment## in vaccine research and development, because# the United States is in fact the 800-pound## gorilla in the corner that really drives how# vaccines are purchased, how they're used.

And if in fact you have the U.S.# government saying, we're not even## going to review this particular process,# why does anybody else want to invest in## these?

These studies that Moderna did# cost millions and millions of dollars## to do.

And so we're going to just see, I# think, the well dry up on new vaccines.

And that's a huge challenge right now as we# surely need vaccines for our old flu vaccines,## for COVID, et cetera.

So, again,# it just makes no sense whatsoever.

AMNA NAWAZ: Can I ask you about what# we have already seen with childhood## vaccine recommendations,# which we covered recently?

Last month, the U.S.

took the unprecedented step# of reducing the number of vaccines recommended## for every child from 17 to 11.

They're basically# emphasizing individual doctor-patient decisions,## rather than making universal recommendations.

We're in new territory here, but what could be# the impact of this, both short term and long term?

DR.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM: Well, the# impact has already been felt.

And that is the fact that parents, often# in their 20s, with their young children,## wanting to do best for their child,# is now hearing about this discussion## or debate or recommendation that# maybe we hold back on vaccines.

Well, when you're a physician, a# nurse practitioner or pharmacist## trying to administer these vaccines, you# have to try to explain, well, no, really,## they still are just as recommended.

But they're# really not because the government says they're## not.

This kind of confusion just adds to# the decreased uptake of these vaccines.

And, in fact, again, the FDA's position on# these vaccines and what came through the ACIP,## the Advisory Committee on Immunization# Practices, is not based on good science.## There's no science to support any of their# recommendations.

They just came out and## declared that these vaccines would now no# longer be standard recommended vaccines.

So, this is dangerous.

And to suggest# we're getting too many vaccines, actually,## they compared us to Denmark, a country# where it's the lowest level of vaccines## per country around the world, including# a number of low-income countries.

We were## right in the middle of the number# of vaccine doses a child received.

And there is no scientific basis# on top of that to say that these## doses are a problem, so, again, smoke and mirrors,## sending up a smoke signal of that we will make# a decision based on ideology, not on science.

AMNA NAWAZ: We now have this Moderna flu vaccine# review rejected.

You have got this change to the## childhood vaccination recommendations.

How would# you say all of this fits into the broader pattern,## both in rhetoric and policy, of what we# have seen from the Trump administration?

DR.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM: Well, let me just put# it in very simple terms for every parent,## grandparent today.

Children are going# to die in this country needlessly,## more and more are going to die# because of what's happening here.

These are not harmless policies.

These# are dangerous policies.

And we can't## say that strongly enough.

And so I hope# parents hear that message, that, in fact,## do listen to your physician, listen to your nurse# practitioner, listen to your pharmacist.

Don't## listen to the federal government, because they# are not basing their recommendation on science.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is Dr.

Michael Osterholm,## the Center for Infectious Disease Research# and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

Dr.

Osterholm, thank you.

Good to see you.

DR.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM: Thank you.# Good to see you.

Thank you very much.

GEOFF BENNETT:## Russia launched nearly 400 drones and 29 missiles# at Ukraine overnight.

The full-scale invasion and## war will enter its fifth year next week.# Russia has repeatedly targeted Ukraine's## energy infrastructure, leaving millions there# without heat or electricity for weeks at a time.

Producer and videographer Amanda Bailly# in Kyiv and Nick Schifrin report now## on residents of Ukraine's capital# under fire in record-setting coal.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In Kyiv, this# is a dark, bitter winter,## a once-bustling European capital.

Now the# night streets lie mostly desolate and cold,## a city whose homes look as Russia wants# them, empty, its residents living in shadows;## 73-year-old Lyudmila Bachurina cooks in her 19th# floor apartment by flashlight and gas burner.

This winter, the temperatures dropped# to minus-14 degrees Fahrenheit.

The## windows are lined with ice.

She helps her# daughter stay warm.

The power plants here## provide both light and heat.

They have# had neither for up to 17 hours a day.

LYUDMILA BACHURINA, Kyiv Resident (through# translator): I'm tired.

It's really tiring,## to be honest, when you don't go# outside and you don't see the sun,## when there's no light and you# can't just go down to the store.

OLENA JANCHUCK, Kyiv Resident: When# my husband is at work, my mother and## I are dealing with all this together.# My mother and I, we support each other.

NICK SCHIFRIN: There is no limit to the support# that 63-year-old Vasyl Ivanovych will give to## his 40-year-old son, Taras (ph).

But# in blackouts, the burden is heavier.

Taras is disabled and can't walk.

And# no electricity means no elevator.

Vasyl## says he feels like the war has set them back# hundreds of years.

Inside, no power or heat,## so the warmth comes from Vasyl caring for his# son and from the orthodox Christmas trimmings.

But this family is especially vulnerable.# The closest shelter is two blocks away.## And sometimes the missiles land without# warning.

Since the start of the year,## Ukraine says Russia has attacked the energy# grid more than 217 times, including at## least six strikes that damaged all three of# Kyiv's major combined heat and power plants.

It's not all the time.

Vasyl Ivanovych invited# us back when the family had power.

He used to## work at the local subway station.

Now# he is his son's full-time caregiver.## He keeps a car battery in# the kitchen for charging.

VASYL IVANOVYCH, Kyiv Resident# (through translator): When people## are left without g.. especially children, pensioners, the# elderly and people with disabilities.

NICK SCHIFRIN: He shows himself# in younger days and his family,## his grandfather wearing a Soviet uniform.# Today, he calls Russians terrorists.

VASYL IVANOVYCH (through translator): I# can't imagine these children will grow## up and remember these times, Russia and# these people who did all this.

And I'm## not even talking about those who have# seen someone die with their own eyes.

NICK SCHIFRIN: And yet Ivanovych# maintains his humor and appetite,## even if he knows the power is not reliable.# He starts comparing today to Soviet times.

VASYL IVANOVYCH (through translator): Who# knows what's better at the end?

Oh, the## power just went out.

The elevator isn't# working.

There's no light.

But that's OK.

DONALD TRUMP, President of the# United States: Because of the cold,## extreme cold.

They have the same that we do.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Last month at a Cabinet meeting,## President Trump announced a deal# with Russia to spare Ukrainian power.

DONALD TRUMP: I personally asked President Putin## not to fire on Kyiv and the# cities and towns for a week.

NICK SCHIFRIN: That was Thursday, January# 29.

Three days later, on February 1,## a Russian drone hit a bus in Southeast# Ukraine.

The strike killed 12 coal miners,## considered members of Ukraine's energy# sector.

And then, two days later,## February 3, Russia's largest strike on Kyiv# so far this year damaged two power plants.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, Ukrainian President (through# translator): They want to take advantage of the## cold because they cannot subjugate us with their# assaults.

Every Russian st.. energy sector, but also those leaders who talk# to Russia and receive continued war in response.

NICK SCHIFRIN: That continued# war has forced millions in Kyiv## to fend for themselves in subzero# temperatures, often for weeks at## a time.

But Ukrainians are resilient and# sometimes turn the cold into celebration.

(MUSIC) NICK SCHIFRIN: A deejay led a rave on Kyiv's# frozen Dnipro River, dancing for de.. because, just hours before, Russia had launched# 375 drones and 21 missiles at Kyiv and Kharkiv,## leaving 1.2 million Ukrainians without power.

The strikes and blackouts are so common, Kyiv# created invincibility points, fitted with heat,## power, water and food, a tent where Kyiv# residents can find brief distraction## from the war; 79-year-old Vyacheslav# Piontovsky and his 78-year-old wife,## Kateryna, live on the 12th floor# of a nearby apartment building.

They have come for some much-needed heat and# to recharge their phones and their resolve.

KATERYNA PIONTOVSKYA, Kyiv Resident# (through translator): We stand strong## because we want victory.

Nothing will break us,## not the cold or hunger.

We're ready to# survive anything.

We're not giving up.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But the relentless attacks are too# much to bear for others like Natalia Shponarska.

NATALIA SHPONARSKA, Kyiv Resident# (through translator): Emotionally,## it's the fifth year.

We can't keep coping.# I'm .. NICK SCHIFRIN: It is hard for her 8-year-old son,## Mark, to watch his mother cry.

But in this# tent with 10-year-old Nastya (ph), at least## the family can stay warm.

They# haven't had heat for three days.

NATALIA SHPONARSKA (through translator):# At home, there is no power, no water,## no heating.

We live on the 16th floor.# It's so cynical what that jerk Putin## says about wanting peace with Ukraine.# He kills every day.

This is his peace?

NICK SCHIFRIN: This is not peace.

This is# war.

And war can be cold, dark and relentless.

For the "PBS News Hour," with Amanda# Bailly in Kyiv, I'm Nick Schifrin.

AMNA NAWAZ: Shortly after she was confirmed,# Attorney General Pam Bondi told lawyers at the## Department of Justice that it was their# job to -- quote -- "zealously advance,## protect and defend the policies of the# United States as set by the president."

It was an early example of the ways in# which the Trump administration has sought## to transform the DOJ into the president's tool for# promoting his agenda and challenging detractors.

Justice correspondent Ali Rogin and the "News# Hour" politics team have been reviewing the## events of the past year to better understand# how this transformation is playing out.

And Ali joins me now.

So, Ali, we know a big part of this story is the## number of attorneys who've left# the DOJ.

What have you found?

ALI ROGIN: Yes, Amna, since last January, the DOJ# work force has fallen by about 8 percent, which## represents about 9,000 employees.

About a# fifth of that were people who accepted the## DOGE offer at the beginning of the# administration to retire or leave.

But if you look at this chart of total# DOJ staffing changes by fiscal year,## they're usually not that drastic.# They increase a little one year,## they decrease a little the next year.

But then,# in fiscal year 2025, there is a significant drop.

AMNA NAWAZ: So what should we understand# about that?

Why are people leaving?

ALI ROGIN: Yes, I have spoken to a number of# attorneys who have served in both Democratic## and Republican administrations, many of them# including the first Trump administration.

And they say that it is normal for policy# priorities in the Department of Justice to## change, depending on who's in office,# what party.

That's even what was done## in the first Trump administration.

But# they say this time is very different,## and Attorney General Bondi seems to be taking# directions directly from President Trump.

These attorneys have many different reasons# for leaving.

Some of them were motivated by## the dismissal of some prosecutors who worked on# January 6 cases.

Others left after the prosecution## of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, after he was wrongly# deported.

Some lawyers have quit in response to## the DOJ's hands-off approach to the immigration# actions we're seeing across the country.

In Minnesota, a group of attorneys# quit after the DOJ declined to## prosecute the ICE agent who shot# and killed Renee Good.

And also,## Amna, we have seen the DOJ decimate or# completely eliminate entire offices.

AMNA NAWAZ: What does all this# mean for the work of the DOJ,## their ability to investigate and prosecute cases?

ALI ROGIN: Well, one of the things it means# is that attorneys are stretched thinner and## people are prosecuting cases on which they# have little to no subject matter expertise.

In fact, in Minnesota, one of the prosecutors# who resigned was actually leading many of the## social services fraud cases that had# initially drawn the attention of the## Trump administration to this# state.

Another benchmark I'm## tracking is the failures to return# indictments before grand juries.

The bars for returning indictments# is relatively low.

They have to find## probable cause that an offense took place.# And it doesn't need to be unanimous.

Amna,## there's an old saying here that you could# indict a ham sandwich.

And that's why,## in recent years, the DOJ has# pursued more than 100,000 cases.

And in most years that we have data for,# they have only failed to get a no true bill,## which is what failure to indict is# known as, in a handful of cases.

But in this DOJ, one official told me, former# official, said there was a shockingly high## number of no true bills, notable cases, include# two failed attempts to indict New York Attorney## General Letitia James, the case against the# so-called sandwich guy involving a man who## threw a sandwich at a federal agent, and more# recently, last week, six lawmakers who taped a## video saying that service members did not have# to obey illegal orders from the president.

AMNA NAWAZ: What are we hearing,# meanwhile, and seeing from the## leaders inside DOJ?

We have seen allegations# of retribution.

Are we seeing that action?

ALI ROGIN: We're hearing some of it.

In November, Deputy Attorney General# Todd Blanc.. against judges.

And the Justice Department# is also trying reportedly to impeach judges## that they consider obstructive.

And for# context, since 1803, there have been 15## impeachments of judges, and eight of them# have resulted in conviction and removal.

The DOJ has also taken the unusual step# of overriding some judges' choices for## people to serve as U.S.

attorney# if no one's been Senate-confirmed## to those positions.

This happened# in New Jersey, where judges picked## a prosecutor.

The DOJ overruled them and# installed Trump's personal lawyer, Alina Habba.

Or, recently, it happened in New York, where# judges appointed a veteran prosecutor.

And## then a few hours later, Todd Blanche# tweeted that the man had been fired.

And, Amna, we reached out to the# Department of Justice with a list## of questions about all of this.

They have not# yet responded, but we will update if they do.

AMNA NAWAZ: All right, that's our# justice correspondent, Ali Rogin.

Ali, thank you.

ALI ROGIN: You bet.

GEOFF BENNETT: The Reverend Jesse Jackson,## the civil rights leader and two-time# presidential candidate, died peacefully## this morning at the age of 84.

He's being# remembered for his decades of activism.

His family wrote, in part: "Our father was# a servant leader, not only to our family,## but to the oppressed, the voiceless,# and the overlooked around the world."

From the civil rights movement of the 1960s,## to protesting police brutality# some six decades later... REV.

JESSE JACKSON, FOUNDER, Rainbow/PUSH# Coalition: We're all precious in God's sight.

GEOFF BENNETT: ... Jesse Jackson was one of the# nation's most prominent civil rights.. a political pioneer.

His historymaking bids for# the White House in the 1980s sparked a movement.

REV.

JESSE JACKSON: I see the face# of America, red, yellow, brown,## Black, and white.

We're all precious in# God's sight, the real rainbow coalition.

GEOFF BENNETT: Jesse Jackson was born# and raised in Greenville, South Carolina,## where he attended racially segregated# schools.

His first major protest was in 1960,## where he was one of eight students to organize# a sit-in at the local whites-only library.

While attending North Carolina A&T, a historically# Black institution, he continued to participate## in protests against segregated businesses.

After# graduating, he moved to Chicago to attend Chicago## Theological Seminary.

He eventually dropped# out to focus on the civil rights movement.

During this time, he met and worked# with the Reverend Dr.

Martin Luther## King Jr.

Jackson was one of hundreds# who marched from Selma to Montgomery,## and soon after began organizing in Chicago for# the Southern Christian Leadership Conference.## Jackson grew close to Dr.

King and soon# became a member of his inner circle.

On the night of Dr.

King's assassination,# Jackson was in Memphis with him and## witnessed the shooting.

The moment# would shape the rest of his career.

REV.

JESSE JACKSON: He dreamed not just of# the privatized notion of content of character,## rather than color of skin.

He# dreamed of the public policy## notion of once we change the law.

He# used his faith to challenge the law.

GEOFF BENNETT: After Dr.

King's death,# Jackson was involved in multiple debates## and disputes over how to approach the# future of the civil rights movement.

REV.

JESSE JACKSON: We're going# to be shot in the back anyhow!

GEOFF BENNETT: He eventually left the SCLC to# launch his own organization, Operation PUSH,## dedicated to improving economic conditions# in Black communities across the country.

REV.

JESSE JACKSON: We are displeased.

We# do not like it.

Cut us in or cut it out.

GEOFF BENNETT: The group received national# attention for pressuring major corporations## to hire more African Americans,# sometimes by threatening boycotts.

REV.

JESSE JACKSON: I'm# simply challenging the party.

GEOFF BENNETT: Jackson decided to step away from# the group in the early 1980s to influence policy## in a different way, running to lead the country.# In 1983, he announced his first campaign for the## White House.

His campaign, he said, was# not solely about winning the nomination,## but about fighting for the rights of a diverse# so-called rainbow coalition of Americans.

REV.

JESSE JACKSON: America is# more like a quilt, many patches,## many pieces, many colors, many sizes, all# woven and held together by a common thread.

GEOFF BENNETT: While detractors# wrote him off as a fringe candidate,## he finished in third place in the Democratic# primaries.

He announced a second bid for the## White House in 1988 and found more# success.

Jackson won primaries and## caucuses in 11 states and refused to# exit the race until the convention.

He ultimately finished second in# the race.

It was the first time## a Black candidate was widely viewed as# a viable contender for the presidency.

Former "PBS News Hour" co-anchor the late Gwen# Ifill covered him for The Washington Post.

GWEN IFILL, Former "PBS News Hour" Anchor:# The most disorganized, exhilarating,## inventive campaign ever, because he would# just show up places and could attract crowds.

GEOFF BENNETT: Jackson remained a# prominent presence in American politics,## serving as one of Washington, D.C.

's first# shadow senators, a position that primarily## advocated for D.C.

statehood.

He also# frequently met with foreign leaders.

He negotiated the release of dozens# of hostages during wars and conflicts,## often without approval from presidents# or Congress.

In 2007, when fellow Chicago## Democrat Barack Obama announced a bid# for the White House, Jackson endorsed## him.

Their relationship grew complicated# at times over the course of the campaign.

But at Obama's victory rally, Jackson was in tears# over the historic election of the country's first## Black president.

Jesse Jackson's family followed# in his political footsteps.

One of his sons,## Jesse Jackson Jr., represented Illinois in# Congress for more than 15 years, before stepping## down in 2012 after being accused and eventually# convicted of defrauding campaign donors.

Another son, Jonathan Jackson, now# represents Illinois in Congress.

Jackson## had several health concerns in recent# years.

He was hospitalized in November## to treat the neurodegenerative condition# called progressive supranuclear palsy,## or PSP, initially diagnosed as# Parkinson's disease in 2017.

But despite the health setbacks, Jesse# Jackson continued his advocacy work,## including participating in Black Lives# Matter protests and getting arrested## during demonstrations and sit-ins# in support of social justice issues.

And we turn now to someone who stood# alongside Jesse Jackson during some## of the most consequential chapters# of the modern civil rights movement.## Ambassador Andrew Young is a former# U.S.

ambassador to the United Nations,## former mayor of Atlanta and longtime lieutenant# to the Reverend Dr.

Martin Luther King Jr.

I spoke with him earlier today and asked him about## Reverend Jackson's role in# pushing for civil rights.

ANDREW YOUNG, Former U.S.

Ambassador# to the United Nations: Well, Reverend## Jackson was the second or third .. in a way, he follows best under the generation of# students coming out of the '60s and the sit-ins.

And he was a member of the group in North# Carolina A&T, Agriculture and Technical College,## that started the sit-ins.

This was five# years after Martin Luther King started the## Montgomery bus boycott.

It was this background## and the fact that he grew up in the Negro# church that prepared him for leadership.

His preaching and speaking was very much like that# of Martin Luther King, so much so that he often,## in the early days, tried to imitate Martin Luther# King.

As he matured in the movement, he developed## his own style of speaking, which was a combination# of the Black church and the movement of students.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, let me ask you# more about that, because his 1984 and## 1988 campaigns reshaped politics, reshaped the# Democratic Party, reshaped coalition politics.

What did his voice as a preacher allow him to do,## allow him to say that a# traditional politician could not?

ANDREW YOUNG: Well, it was not so much that# it allowed him to say anything different.## He was basically saying the same thing that# Martin Luther King and his father were saying## years before, and even Martin's grandfather.

But Jesse mixed it with the modern jazz# of the '60s and the kind of a hip-hop## of sort of give-and-take speech, as though# you're preaching to yourself.

You ask a## question and then you give the answer.# But he was a very effective speaker,## partially because he had a great voice, and# he was he was really a good-looking kid.

He spoke the language of the young# people, which was more rhythmic## and give-and-take.

And he was funny.

He# could turn a phrase.

And "I am somebody"## became an effort of asserting his identity in# a society that did not really recognize him.

GEOFF BENNETT: When history# writes about Jesse Jackson,## what do you hope it understands about his place# in the long arc of the civil rights movement?

ANDREW YOUNG: Well, I think that he# certainly deserves an important place,## if not for his runs for presidency, for his# ability to mobilize large numbers of people.

He was a great speaker before a crowd.

And he# was always able to gather a crowd.

In fact,## every Saturday morning, he rallied the churches# of Chicago, first in Operation Breadbaskets## and then Operation PUSH, which were efforts# on his part to get the economy of Black## America integrated into the economy of, in this# case, the supermarkets and department stores.

And he was something of an economic prophet# before he started his run for the presidency.

GEOFF BENNETT: Ambassador Andrew# Young, thank you for your time,## sir, and my condolences on# the loss of your friend.

ANDREW YOUNG: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: Late-night show host Stephen Colbert# is going after his soon-to-be-former network,## saying CBS blocked him from airing# an interview on the broadcast.

That## interview was with James Talarico,# a Texas Democrat running for Senate## who's also been a vocal critic of# President Trump and his policies.

Colbert said he was told the interview could# violate the so-called equal time rule, which## mandates that all political candidates receive# equal on-air opportunities.

Entertainment shows,## including late-night and daytime talk shows,# have long been the exception to that rule.

But, back in January, FCC Chairman Brendan Carr# released a letter saying that could change.

Here's Colbert from last night.

STEPHEN COLBERT, Host, "The Late Show# With Stephen Colbert": In this letter,## Carr said he was thinking about# dropping the exception for .. shows because he said some of them# were motivated by partisan purposes.

Well, sir, you're chairman of the# FCC, so FCCU, because I think... (CHEERING) STEPHEN COLBERT: Because I think you are# motivated by partisan purposes yourself.

(CHEERING) STEPHEN COLBERT: Sir, you# smelt it because you dealt it.

(LAUGHTER) AMNA NAWAZ: For more, I'm joined# now by FCC C.. Welcome back to the "News# Hour."

Thanks for being here.

ANNA GOMEZ, Commissioner, Federal Communications# Commission: Thank you.

It's good to be .. AMNA NAWAZ: I should also note we did invite# FCC .. but his office did not respond.

He's# welcome to join us in the future.

I want to put to you some confusing# narratives we have here.

Colbert,## we have heard, is saying he was# told by CBS lawyers Talarico could## not be on the broadcast.

So he ran the# interview on YouTube instead.

But CBS## in a statement today said that Colbert was# not prohibited from airing the interview.

He was told it could trigger the FCC# equal time rule and that he chose to## stream it on YouTube instead.

What# do you make of these two narratives?

ANNA GOMEZ: Well, I don't know between# the two facts that are being provided,## but I do know that what the FCC did this year was,## it put out a notice about the equal time rule# that doesn't really give us anything new.

The equal time rule has been on the books for# a very long time.

It's a part of the statute.## And what it does is, it allows# legally qualified candidates to## request equal time if a show puts on# another legally qualified candidate.

AMNA NAWAZ: OK.

ANNA GOMEZ: But ther.. something that basically says, if you are# providing programming that is newsworthy,## then you are exempt from# this equal time requirement.

The FCC has longstanding practice of declaring# news -- entertainment programs to be newsworthy,## for example, "The Tonight Show," Sally Jessy# Raphael, "Politically Incorrect," "Donahue."

Those## were all found to be bona fide news exemptions# because of the newsworthiness of their programs.

AMNA NAWAZ: So is that a rule that the FCC# chairman could change?

Could that equal time## rule now be expanded to include daytime and# late-night shows that were previously exempt?

ANNA GOMEZ: Well, what the FCC did was# it put out a public notice that said,## hey, just because we have this precedent# doesn't mean that everything that you are## doing is actually subject to this# news exemption.

And we want to now## review everything that you're doing# in order to make that determination.

One of the things that's really important to# note is that in declaring whether something is## subject to the bona fide news exemption,# what it does is, it says -- has the producer,## the independent producer or the broadcaster,# made a decision that is reasonable about the## newsworthiness of that particular programming, as# opposed to having the candidate, the programming,## the format, the content being done for purposes# of harming or helping a particular candidate?

The FCC relies on the reasonable good# faith judgment of the broadcasters in## making that determination.

So the point# that I'm trying to make here is that this## public notice that the commission# put out is not anything new.

It## is saying we have this equal time rule# and we want people to be aware of that.

AMNA NAWAZ: Yes.

And yet at the same time## it's now triggered this episode# that we're all talking about.

I mean, you did accuse CBS of corporate# capitulation to administration efforts to## censor and control speech.

And Texas State# Rep.

James Talarico in that interview that## aired on YouTube said sort of the same# thing.

And take a listen to how he put it.

STATE REP.

JAMES TALARICO (D-TX): Corporate# media executives are selling out the First## Amendment to curry favor with corrupt# politicians.

And a threat to any of## our First Amendment rights is a threat# to all of our First Amendment rights.

(CHEERING) AMNA NAWAZ: There are those who are going# to say the interview was published, right?## We are airing it.

Others are airing it.

People# are talking about it.

Why censorship concerns?

ANNA GOMEZ: The concern here is because this# is a part of a broader pattern by this FCC## and this administration to get our corporate# parents of our broadcasters to capitulate and## to modify how they are reporting the news, to# do so in a way that this administration likes.

Anything they don't like, they want to control# and they want to censor.

So, in this case,## it's just part of a broader pattern.

Now,# maybe it's true that the facts between CBS## and the Colbert show are different, but the# fact that we're in this moment and talking## about this tells you that we are in a very# precarious moment for our First Amendment.

And the FCC needs to stay# out of content regulation## because our First Amendment prohibits it.

AMNA NAWAZ: So what is the# impact of that pattern as## you lay it out?

How could it change programming,## especially when we're talking about a year in# which there are midterm elections coming up?

ANNA GOMEZ: Broadcasters are already# self-censoring because they don't## want to get before the crosshairs of# this administration.

And that is bad## for the First Amendment.

It's bad for the# freedom of the press.

We need broadcasters,## we need all journalists to hold us to account,# because that is their role in our democracy.

So this is very serious.

AMNA NAWAZ: That is FCC Commissioner# Anna Gomez joining us tonight.

Commissioner Gomez, thank you for# your time.

Really appreciate it.

ANNA GOMEZ: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT:## In her new book, award-winning# novelist Namwali Serpell takes## on one of the towering figures in# American literature, Toni Morrison.

Serpell guides readers through# Morrison's extraordinary body of work,## from her celebrated novels, to# her criticism, poetry and plays,## offering close readings that illuminate# the depth of Morrison's imagination,## innovation and craft.

And it asks what it means# to read Morrison with fresh eyes in our time.

I recently spoke with Namwali# Serpell about her book "On Morrison."

Namwali Serpell, thank you for being here.

NAMWALI SERPELL, Author, "On Morrison":# Thank you so much for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: In this book, you focus# on the entiret.. the 11 novels, the play, beyond.

And early in the book, you write: "I# never met Morrison.

I never tried to## either.

I have loved knowing her through# reading her over the decades of my life."

Why was it important to establish that distance# at the beginning to make clear that the work,## not the woman, was the primary focus?

NAMWALI SERPELL: Thank you# so much for that question.

Morrison herself had a version to what she# called biographical writing.

She thought## that human beings had a kind of copyright on# their selves.

And so she said, for her, writing## was very much about invention, imagining someone# from the curl to the full human being, she said.

She often advised her creative writing# students, I don't want to hear about your## little selves.

Don't write about yourself.# I want you to write about other people.

And when she contracted to write a memoir,# she ended up canceling that project,## because she said, my life's not that interesting.

So I sort of feel like I have the privilege# of getting to know Morrison through her work,## in a way, because she gives us that# permission.

Reading and writing were## also so foundational to what she believed and# to how she herself related to other people.## She said, writing for me is a# slow and advanced form of reading.

And so, in that sense, I felt that kind of# literary relationship was something that I really## wanted to unfold in my analysis of her work.# Rather than thinking about her as this kind of## monument to Black excellence, I wanted to# really dig in and play with her language.

GEOFF BENNETT: And her work is so often# understood to be and described as difficult,## sometimes as a criticism, sometimes as a warning.

And in the book, you argue that# the difficulty isn't a flaw;## it's really a demand placed on the# reader.

Tell me more about that.

NAMWALI SERPELL: Morrison was very good# at articulating why she did the things## that she did in terms of her choices, her# formal choices, the choices of design.

And she spoke about, for example, having gaps# and spaces in the work so that the reader has## to step in to piece things together.

And,# for her, this was part of an ethos that## had to do with egalitarianism, treating the# reading experience, the writing experience,## the whole literary experience as a kind of# communal, mutually enforcing engagement.

You have to actually work to make the work come to# life with her.

And I think, for her, that was very## important, very much a part of a Black aesthetic.# When you're in a jazz show, the hoots and hollers## and the calls and the clapping is as much part# of the performance as the playing of the music.

GEOFF BENNETT: A question just occurred# to me.

How can a writer like Toni Morrison## be fully institutionalized, in the# sense that she is taught everywhere,## and yet fundamentally misunderstood# and not read on her own terms?

NAMWALI SERPELL: This is a# really, really key question.

And it's a paradox that her very good friend# Fran Lebowitz articulated when Morrison passed## away.

She said Morrison's writing was# underappreciated, curiously enough,## perhaps because people always looked at it# through the prism of her being Black and her## being a woman.

There's a way in which her stature,# her success came to overshadow the work itself.

There's a kind of presumption# that Morrison's work is brilliant,## it's beautiful, but people don't# actually need to read it.

And,## in this way, there's been a lack of attention# to how experimental her writing was and how## innovative her writing was, how much# she broke the form of the novel open.

I also think, for a long time, there were# not readers able to bridge, as she did,## her understanding of the novel with her# understanding of Black cultural forms,## things like signifying, things# like shade, things like jazz.

And it's by having this kind of balance of the# two forms of knowledge, as a professor myself,## as a Black woman, as a writer, that# I feel like I wanted to contribute to## the conversation about Morrison's work,# focusing on her mastery of Black form.

GEOFF BENNETT: It's interesting.

I hear you# say that the paradox of Toni Morrison was that,## the more she was celebrated, the# less rigorously she was read.

NAMWALI SERPELL: She was read, yes.

GEOFF BENNETT: And in this moment# that prizes clarity and accessibility## and instant comprehension, what added# value does Toni Morrison's work yield?

NAMWALI SERPELL: I think Morrison wanted to go# back to what she described as village literature,## which is a notion that literature is# a social form, it's a community form,## and therefore it can't just tell you,# the individual reader, what to do.

It has to open up questions so that we can# talk about it as a community.

We're not just## being given a message or a single slogan.# We're being given an experience.

And that## experience is raising questions, is opening# up all sorts of topics for debate so that,## when you close the cover of the# novel and you turn to the final page,## you immediately want to seek someone# out and talk to them about it.

That, to me, is the power of literature.

GEOFF BENNETT: You end the book by saying# that you aspire to Morrison's freedom to## be at ease with being difficult.

What does that# freedom look like, especially for Black women?

NAMWALI SERPELL: It's a very tricky time to# be willful, to be unreasonable, to be angry.

These are all ways in which Black women get# relegated to the category of being difficult.## But I think we have to have a faith and a# commitment to the complexity of our experience,## to the complexity of our lives, and to# the incredible complexity of art itself.

Morrison said, when someone considers you# difficult, that's a good sign.

It means that## you have insisted on being taken seriously.

And,# to me, that's what I aspire to.

I want my work## to be taken seriously.

I want to be taken# seriously.

I don't want to be thrown into## a position where I'm here nearly to comfort,# or placate, or translate things for people.

I want to inspire them.

I want to engage# with them, and I want to make them think.

GEOFF BENNETT: The book is extraordinary.

NAMWALI SERPELL: Thank you so much.

GEOFF BENNETT: "On Morrison."

Namwali Serpell, thank you for being he.. NAMWALI SERPELL: Thank you.

AMNA NAWAZ: And that is the "News Hour"#for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "News Hour," thank..