GEOFF BENNETT: Good evening.

I'm# Geoff Bennett.

Amna Nawaz is away.

On the "News Hour" tonight: The expiration of a# nuclear arms treaty between the U.S.

and Russia## makes the future even more uncertain for# the world's two largest nuclear arsenals.

Federal agents' use of surveillance tools to track## immigrants and protesters raises# questions about civil liberties.

And we look at the influence of# presidential adviser Stephen Miller## on Trump administration policies and how# he rose to his position of prominence.

ASHLEY PARKER, "The Atlantic": Cultural# issues can kind of catapult someone like## Stephen Miller from the fringes to the center# of a conversation that's dominating the nation.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Hour."

For the first time in more than a# half-century, there are no limits## on the world's two largest atomic arsenals.

The# sole remaining nuclear arms treaty in the world,## known as New START, is expiring, and arms# control advocates fear a new arms race.

Nick Schifrin starts our coverage.

NICK SCHIFRIN: They're the world's deadliest# weapons, able to obliterate entire cities and,## when mounted on missiles, can fly# thousands of miles in minutes.

And for the last 15 years, the# deployment of Russia and American## long-range nuclear weapons has been restricted.

BARACK OBAMA, Former President# of the United States: Today is an## important milestone for nuclear# .. NICK SCHIFRIN: It was 2010 when President# Barack Obama and then-Russian President## Dmitry Medvedev signed the New# Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty.## It limited the U.S.

and Russia to 700 deployed# intercontinental ballistic missiles on land,## at sea, and on heavy bombers, and it limited to# 1,550 the number of deployed nuclear warheads.

It also included extensive verification measures,# such as movement notifications, data exchanges,## and on-site inspections, although the inspections# stopped during COVID and never resumed.

JEN PSAKI, Former White House Press# Secretary: That the New START Treaty## is in the national security# interests of the United States.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In 2021, U.S.

and Russia agreed# to extend the treaty for another five years## until today.

Last year, Russian President Vladimir# Putin offered to extend it further into next year.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, Russian President# (through translator): In the past,## the New START Treaty worked.

It worked well,## fulfilling its fundamental role as a constraint,# curbing the arms race and controlling weapons.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But, today in Washington,## Secretary of State Marco Rubio said New# START was no longer .. MARCO RUBIO, U.S.

Secretary of State: In order# to have true arms control in the 21st century,## it's impossible to do something# that doesn't include China because## of their vast and rapidly growing stockpile.

NICK SCHIFRIN: For years, China's stockpile has# been a fraction of the U.S.

and Russian stockpile,## what Beijing has long labeled a minimum# level required for national security.## But the Department of Defense says, by 2030,# Beijing will have more than 1,000 warheads,## including lower-yield tactical nuclear weapons.

But regardless of adversaries' arsenals,## for decades, the U.S.'

nuclear deterrence# works thanks to trust that the U.S.

will## provide allies a nuclear umbrella.# But some allies are losing the faith.

LT.

COL.

JOHANNES KIBSGAARD, Norwegian# Armed Forces: I think one of -- sort## of one of the direct consequences of# the recent diplomatic noise is that## credibility that just isn't there right now.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Johannes Kibsgaard is a lieutenant# colonel at the Norwegian Armed Forces command and## a professor at the Staff College.

He says# the U.S.

can no longer be trusted to use## nuclear weapons to protect Europe and is urging a# Nordic nuke, allowing the U.S.

to focus on China.

LT.

COL.

JOHANNES KIBSGAARD: It's crucial that# America actually focuses on Southeast Asia, and## that means that European allies need to finally# step up and actually complete their defenses.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Back on New START,# there is a debate over whether the## U.S.

should extend or walk away from the treaty.

So, for that debate, we get two perspectives.## Rose Gottemoeller was the chief U.S.# negotiator for the New START agreement## during the Obama administration and is now a# distinguished lecturer at Stanford University.## And Frank Miller had a 30-year career in# government focusing on nuclear weapons and## national security.

He's now a principal at The# Scowcroft Group, an international consulting firm.

Thanks very much to you both.# Welcome back to the "News Hour."

Rose Gottemoeller, let me start with you. '

You think the U.S.

should continue to# abide by the limits in New START.

Why?

ROSE GOTTEMOELLER, Former U.S.

Undersecretary# of State for Arms Control and International## not only the United States under limits,# but they keep the Russians under limits,## at a time when the Russians could move# rather quickly to upload warheads and## put more warheads on each of their missiles# and, therefore, I think, outrun us in this## period when we are looking at China building# up, as Secretary Rubio quite rightly said.

They're building up quickly.

So it's, to my# mind, a no-brainer to keep the Russians under## limits as we ponder and plan and prepare# to confront the Chinese on this matter.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Frank Miller, is it a# no-brainer to extend the treaty for one year?

FRANK MILLER, Former Defense Department Official:# Absolute -- no, absolutely not.

Paradoxically,## getting rid of the treaty makes us# stronger, makes the world more peaceful.

The treaty kept U.S.

force levels, deterrence# force levels, at the 2010-2011 levels.

The world## is vastly different.

We now face an antagonistic# Russia and a growing, antagonistic China.

And so## if we are kept at deterrence levels that# are inadequate to deter Russia and China## simultaneously, which is a conclusion that a# commission that Rose and I both served on in '23,## then, by signaling that we're not prepared# to keep our deterrent at current levels,## we suggest to the Russians and the Chinese that we# are bluffing, not that we have a real deterrent.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Rose Gottemoeller, do# the caps limit our ability to deter?

ROSE GOTTEMOELLER: Well, Frank and I differ## on this quite clearly.

And he's# a greatly respected collea.. But I will say that it's a question of how# fast do we have to move right now.

President## Putin was talking about extending the limits of# New START for one year in order to prepare for## new negotiations and strategic stability# talks.

And I don't think anybody denies,## certainly I do not, that we have a very severe## development here with China building# up its nuclear forces all of a sudden.

And so we need to plan and prepare carefully# at this moment for what we do about China.## But what concerns me is the immediate# tactical move that the Russians might## make.

They are prepared to put more# warheads on their missiles.

That was## also a finding of the Strategic Posture# Commission that frank and I served on.

And it concerns me that the commission report# said, as soon as Russia's release from New START## limits, it may start to build up and put# more warheads on its missiles immediately.

NICK SCHIFRIN: So, Frank Miller, would# Russia do that if the caps are lifted?

FRANK MILLER: Russia could do that.

And to be# perfectly honest, that doesn't bother me one bit.

What bothers me is that the United States doesn't# have a deterrent force adequate to deter China and## Russia simultaneously.

And if the Russians want to# make the rubble bounce, that's up to them.

But we## can build up slowly.

Nothing's going to happen# overnight.

We're talking about taking warheads## out of storage and putting them on existing# submarines, on an existing land-based missiles.

This is a process that will take several years# to do.

So there will be nothing sudden.

And we## could always engage during those years# in new arms control negotiations with## the Russians and perhaps the Chinese.# But this treaty has run its course.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Rose Gottemoeller, what's wrong# with taking more warheads out of storage?

ROSE GOTTEMOELLER: Well, there's nothing wrong# with that.

And, in fact, we are planning and## preparing to do so.

But Frank said very clearly# this is going to take a couple of years to do.

So why would we take a chance# in this coming year?

As we're## preparing and planning for new talks# with both China and, I stress, Russia,## why not take a little time with an insurance# policy in place, the New START Treaty limits,## to plan and prepare and prevent the# Russians from suddenly starting to build up?

Whether or not they're making the rubble bounce,## one could say we're making the rubble# bounce if we're building up also.

But I## think it's important to bear in mind this# is not a question of disagreement between## Frank and me.

We need to counter both# of these powers, these nuclear powers.

It's, can we take a year to plan# and prepare and do it carefully,## when we know it's going to take us some# time to begin to upload our missiles anyway,## to put more warheads on our missiles anyway?

NICK SCHIFRIN: Frank Miller, I saw you# shaking your head during that answer.

FRANK MILLER: Well, my counter to my friend# Rose is that we have taken two years.

The## report from the commission came out in# '23.

The Biden administration embraced## the report's conclusions in '24.# We have given the Russians time.

It's now incumbent upon us to begin to take# our deterrent to the levels -- and we're## not talking large numbers of warheads, but to# slowly build up our force so that it can deter## Russia and China simultaneously, as U.S.

policy# stresses.

And if we can deter simultaneously,## the risk of their aggression, their attack# on us or our allies is dramatically reduced.

NICK SCHIFRIN: In the two# minutes that I have left,## can I bring us back to the argument you heard# from the Norwegian colonel in our story?

And, Frank Miller, let me actually start with# you.

Is it a good idea for U.S.

allies who are## doubting U.S.

nuclear credibility today# to consider their own nuclear weapons?

FRANK MILLER: No.

Nuclear proliferation# is not a good thing.

I don't know the## colonel.

He's clearly very young.

The fact# is, from the beginnings of NATO in 1949,## allies have always questioned, would# the U.S.

come to their aid in extremis?

We have done so for 80-odd years.

We# have deterred attack against the NATO## alliance.

And so people are going to have# to put their faith in the United States,## just as their fathers and grandfathers did.

NICK SCHIFRIN: But, Rose Gottemoeller,# there is clearly some European doubt,## some European loss of faith, if you will, in# the U.S.

nuclear guarantee.

Do you believe## that Europe, or, frankly, even Asian allies# today should doubt the U.S.

nuclear guarantee?

ROSE GOTTEMOELLER: This is one thing# that Frank and I do agree squarely on,## that the notion of friendly deterrence is not# going to -- I'm sorry -- friendly proliferation,## rather -- we need friendly deterrence, right?

But friendly proliferation will not serve us well,## because, for one thing, the NATO European# allies, as well as our Asian allies,## need to concentrate on conventional force# buildup and conventional force modernization.

These nuclear programs are# vastly expensive and cost## a grave amount.

And these countries have# other things to spend their resources on.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Well, it's always nice to end... FRANK MILLER: And possibly# have them within 10 years.

NICK SCHIFRIN: Yes, within 10 years, absolutely.

It's also -- it's always nice# to end with an agreement.

So.. Rose Gottemoeller and Frank Miller,# thank you very much to you both.

FRANK MILLER: Thanks for having us.

ROSE GOTTEMOELLE.. GEOFF BENNETT: In the day's other headlines:## The U.S.

Supreme Court is allowing# the state of California .. newly drawn congressional map that favors# Democrats in this year's midterm elections.

The justices today rejected a request# by California Republicans to override an## appeals court's approval of the map, which# could help Democrats flip five seats.

It## comes about two months after the court# cleared the way for Texas to use a map## aimed at helping Republicans pick up five# seats of their own.

That map was pushed## by President Trump and helped kick-start# a nationwide battle over redistricting.

Officials in Fulton County, Georgia,# are challenging the FBI seizure of## ballots and other documents related to# the 2020 election.

In a filing today,## they said they're seeking the return of# the materials that were taken during a## raid last week at the warehouse# where the records were stored.

County Chairman Robb Pitts, a Democrat, said# -- quote -- "This case is not only about## Fulton County.

This is about elections# across Georgia and across the nation."

Mr.

Trump has long falsely claimed that the# 2020 election was rigged.

Just this week,## he called for Republican officials to take# over voting and nationalize U.S.

elections.

In Gaza, several Israeli strikes today killed# at least 21 people including two infants.

Health## officials say that among the dead was a medic in# Khan Yunis who rushed to help two victims when he## was hit.

In a separate attack, Israeli troops# fired at a residential building in North Gaza.## Israel says the strikes were in response to# a soldier being injured by militant fire,## which it sees as a violation of its# cease-fire agreement with Hamas.

A relative of those killed said many of the# victims in one attack were from the same family.

MOHAMMAD JASER, Relative (through translator): We# can't comprehend why this is happening to us.

Our## relative his wife had given birth.

The baby girl,# who was 6 or 7 days old, was martyred.

They were## all killed.

What can we do?

Where can we go?# We don't know what to do.

This isn't a life.

GEOFF BENNETT: Also today, Palestinian# officials said that medical evacuations## at the Rafah Border Crossing were halted.# Israel insists that the border remains open## and that any delays were due to a lack of# coordination with the relevant agencies.

A top Ukrainian official says that talks today# in Abu Dhabi with Russian officials were,## in his words, substantive and productive.## The negotiations are aimed at ending the nearly# four-year war and are being brokered by the U.S.,## with envoy Steve Witkoff and President# Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner attending.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that# the doors for a peaceful settlement are open,## but added that Russia will continue its military# campaign.

Russian attacks today killed at least## nine people across Ukraine and wounded more than# a dozen others.

Separately, President Zelenskyy## told a French broadcaster today that an estimated# 55,000 Ukrainian soldiers have now died in battle.

There's been more fallout from the recent# release of millions of documents related## to the late convicted sex offender# Jeffrey Epstein.

Starting overseas,## the British government said today it'll# release documents related to Peter Mandelson,## who was appointed as ambassador to# the U.S.

despite his ties to Epstein.

Bill Gates said today he regrets every minute# he spent with Epstein after an e-mail alleged## that Gates was having an extramarital affair,# which he denies.

This all comes after lawyers## for Epstein's victims reached a deal with the# Justice Department to protect the identities## of nearly 100 women who were reportedly# affected by the release of the documents.

The man who tried to assassinate# President Trump at his Florida## golf course has been sentenced to# life in prison.

In court today,## Ryan Routh also received a seven-year sentence# for a firearm offense.

Federal prosecutors had## been seeking life, saying his crime was# unacceptable in this country or anywhere.

In 2024, a Secret Service agent spotted Routh# with a rifle aimed at then-candidate Trump.

He## was taken into custody without his ever firing a# shot.

Today, sentencing caps off a chaotic trial.## In September, Routh tried to stab himself with a# pen after the jury found him guilty on all counts.

Former Indiana Congressman Lee Hamilton has# died.

The Democrat served 34 years in the House,## where he led the powerful House Foreign# Affairs and Intelligence committees.

He## also served on the congressional probe of the# Iran-Contra scandal and later in life served## as vice chair of the 9/11 Commission on the# government's failures to prevent the attacks.

He made a number of appearances on this program,## where he spoke about the# complexity of foreign policy.

LEE HAMILTON, Former Co-Chairman, 9/11# Commission: You have to use other tools## of power.

And that can be covert action.

It# can be diplomacy.

It can be political st.. economic leverage, all kinds of things.

GEOFF BENNETT: His counsel was sought by# Democratic presidents, including Lyndon## Johnson and Bill Clinton.

In 2015, then-President# Barack Obama awarded him the Presidential Medal of## Freedom, the nation's highest civilian# honor.

Lee Hamilton was 94 years old.

On Wall Street today, stocks ended mixed# amid ongoing weakness in tech shares.## The Dow Jones industrial average added 260# points on the day.

The Nasdaq lost ground,## falling around 350 points.

The# S&P 500 also ended in the red.

And a Doberman pinscher named Penny is the latest## winner of the most prestigious# prize in the U.S.

dog show world.

MAN: The best in show at the 150th Westminster# Kennel Club dog show is the Doberman pinscher.

(CHEERING) out 2,500 other dogs spanning more than 200# breeds.

Penny becomes the fifth Doberman to win## top honors.

Runner-up and receiving just as many# cheers was a Chesapeake Bay retriever named Cota.

Still to come on the NewsHour: hundreds of people# are laid off at The Washington Post -- we speak## with its former editor Marty Baron; a report from# Antarctica, as researchers there face serious## obstacles to measuring the continent's fastest# melting glacier; and renowned dancer and educator## Alicia Graf Mack discusses her new position# leading the legendary Alvin Ailey company.

GEOFF BENNETT: President Trump's border# czar Tom Homan announced today that## roughly 700 immigration officers# will be withdrawn from Minnesota## after what he described as unprecedented# cooperation from local law enforcement.

But about 2,000 agents are still expected to# remain on the ground for what he described## as targeted operations.

During an interview with# NBC News today, President Trump was asked why he## directed Homan to withdraw some of the officers# and what he had learned from Minneapolis.

DONALD TRUMP: I learned that uh maybe we# can use a little bit of a softer touch,## but you still have to be tough.

These# are crim— We're dealing with really## hard criminals in Minneapolis and elsewhere.

GEOFF BENNETT: There continue to be real concerns## about ICE's tactics.

William Brangham# focuses on that part of the story.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: That's right, Geoff.

Homan's announcement comes amid ongoing inte.. and the fatal shootings by them of Renee Good# and Alex Pretti.

But there's a whole other set## of tactics that immigration officials are# using to track suspects and protesters.

This growing surveillance arsenal includes facial## detection apps and databases,# cell phone trackers and drones.

For more on how this technology# is being deployed on U.S.

streets,## we are joined by Joseph Cox of 404 Media.

Joseph, thank you so much for being here.

You have been covering all these different# technologies that ICE agents are using and## how they're able to scoop up information# about people without them really knowing## what they are doing.

Let's talk# about some of those technologies.

One of them is called Webloc.# Explain what that is, what it does.

JOSEPH COX, 404 Media: Yes, so Webloc allows## ICE to track the location of mobile# phones without a warrant, crucially.

Now, this data is not coming from the# telecoms.

It is not coming from AT&T or## Verizon or T-Mobile.

It is most likely# coming from the advertising ecosystem## behind ordinary apps on your mobile# phone.

So Webloc allows ICE to draw## a map around a particular neighborhood# or a block or a general area and then## see the location of all the phones in that# particular place that the tool has data on.

They could follow it from that location to# somewhere the phone stays overnight.

Presumably,## that's where the person is sleeping and maybe# where they live.

They can then follow it to their## potential employer as well.

And again, crucially,# it allows ICE to do this without a court order,## without a subpoena.

They're just# buying access to the data itself.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: So if they knew my name# or they knew that I was a particular person## of interest, they can just scoop# up that publicly available data,## commercially available data,# and then use it to track me?

JOSEPH COX: They would most likely do it# based on a location.

So I do want to stress,## we don't know exactly what ICE is using this for,# but the tool has been marketed by the company that## sells it to monitor things like the Black Lives# Matter protest that we had several years ago.

What ICE would probably do is draw a map,# draw a circle around a particular location,## see the phones there, and then if those# people or devices are of particular interest,## they would then follow those and then# figure out who that person might be.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: I see.

Another one of these devices# is called Paragon .. which is a phone hacking tool.

What does it do?

JOSEPH COX: I mean, Paragon sells some of the# most powerful surveillance technology that## law enforcement and intelligence agencies# are able to purchase.

It allows ICE or any## government customer to remotely break into# most likely fully up-to-date mobile phones.

Now, this is an exceptionally powerful capability.## It would allow ICE to read Signal messages, for# example, messages which are usually encrypted,## or all sorts of other data# on the mobile phone as well.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: It's really extraordinary# that they would have that ability.

Another one called Mobile Fortify is somewhat# similar to what people might have seen at airports## when they go to check in for their flights.# What does that allow the government to do?

JOSEPH COX: So Mobile Fortify is ICE's and# now Custom and Border Protection's facial## recognition app.

An ICE officer can point# their mobile phone at any person inside the## United States.

It will then query a database# of hundreds of millions of images and other## government databases as well to verify whether# this person has been given a deportation order,## whether they're a citizen, bring up# other personal information as well.

And we have seen both ICE and Customs and Border# Protection using this tool on American streets,## where, instead of going up to somebody# and asking for their passport or other## identification document, perhaps# they don't want to hand that over,## the DHS officials will just use# this app to scan their face.

And, crucially, ICE argues and believes# you cannot opt out of this scanning.

If ICE## wishes to scan your face with Mobile Fortify,# they believe that you must comply with that.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Is any of this legal?

I# mean, anyone with even a cursory knowledge of## the Constitution knows there's a prohibition# against unreasonable searches and seizures.

I'm not a lawyer, but this certainly seems# to fall right squarely in the middle of that.

JOSEPH COX: I think that's a really# interesting thing about a lot of these## surveillance technologies, is that it# is a legal gray area, or, if anything,## ICE might actually be acting legally as well.

When it comes to Webloc, the phone location# data, they don't need a warrant because## they're buying it from a commercial broker.# They don't need to go to a court and get## permission to do that.

With the facial# recognition staff from Mobile Fortify,## they don't need to do that either, in their eyes,# because they already have all of that information.

It is already querying all of these government# databases.

Now, with the mobile phone spyware,## yes, hopefully, ICE would get a warrant# before deploying that.

When the FBI has## deployed hacking tools in the past,# they have sought a warrant as well.

But, again, the exact contours and context# which ICE is actually using that technology## is really unclear.

So, frankly, we don't know# if they have obtained a warrant to use that.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: How can people protect# themselves from this?

I mean, we're not trying## to shield people from being able to escape# criminal activity or repercussions for it.

But if someone is legally protesting,## is there anything that they can do to try to# hold off some of these more invasive searches?

JOSEPH COX: Yes, I think that's# the thing with Webloc especially,## is that it's quite an indiscriminate tool.

This is not like it just includes the mobile# phone data of criminal suspects.

I would just## say that people should probably be cautious# and vigilant about the apps they install on## their phone.

If you install a video game, for# example, and it asks for your location data,## maybe take a minute and think, I don't know# if that game really needs my location data,## because ultimately you don't really know where# that information is being transmitted to.

And it could end up in the hands of any other# number of companies or potentially ICE as well.

WILLIAM BRANGHAM: Joseph Cox of 404# Media, thank you so much for being here.

JOSEPH COX: Thank you.

Really appreciate it.

GEOFF BENNETT:## White House Deputy Chief of Staff Stephen# Miller is one of Washington's most polarizing## power brokers.

He's a chief architect of# the administration's immigration crackdown,## and his portfolio has expanded to# include foreign policy as well.

Our White House correspondent,# Liz Landers, has this closer look.

STEPHEN MILLER, White House Deputy Chief# of Staff: The U.S.

military is repatriating## illegal immigrants at a pace and a skill that# has never occurred before in American history.

LIZ LANDERS: One of the brains behind all# of President Trump's second-term policies,## Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy Stephen Miller.

STEPHEN MILLER: To all ICE officers, you# have federal immunity in the conduct of## your duties.

And anybody who lays a# hand on you, or tries to stop you,## or tries to obstruct you is committing a felony.

LIZ LANDERS: The 40-year-old# hard-lined conservative grew## up in Southern California and became# politically active at a young age.

WOMAN: I do like that he's really# good about voicing his opinions,## but I don't like the way he does it.

LIZ LANDERS: That's clear in this video made# by his classmates at San.. which has excerpts from his speech Miller# delivered while running for student government.

STEPHEN MILLER: Am I the only one who is sick# and tired of being told to pick up my trash,## when we have plenty of janitors# who are paid to do it for us?

LIZ LANDERS: Witnesses say those comments# got him escorted off stage.

Miller went on## to Duke University, which was thrust into the# national spotlight in 2006, when white members## of the school's lacrosse team were accused# of raping an exotic dancer who was Black.

BILL O'REILLY, Former Host, "The# O'Reilly Factor": You a student,## pretty much the only person who# talked to us.

What's going on?

LIZ LANDERS: Miller made multiple TV# appearances defending the players.

STEPHEN MILLER: This was never about# what happened to this particular woman,## according to her testimony, nor# was it ever about these players.

LIZ LANDERS: The state's attorney general# later dropped all charges against the players,## and the accuser eventually admitted to lying.

ASHLEY PARKER, "The Atlantic":# He is appearing as essentially## a spokesperson on major, major prime-time shows.

LIZ LANDERS: Ashley Parker is a writer# at "The Atlantic" who has covered Miller.

ASHLEY PARKER: These cultural issues can# kind of catapult someone like Stephen## Miller from the fringes to the center of a# conversation that's dominating the nation.

LIZ LANDERS: Miller began his career# in Washington working for influential## Tea Party Republicans like former Congresswoman# Michele Bachmann and then-Senator Jeff Sessions.

As a top aide to sessions, Miller helped craft# messaging against a 2013 bipartisan immigration## bill that would have created a path for millions# of undocumented immigrants to gain legal status.

FMR.

SEN.

JEFF SESSIONS (R-AL):# I believe the interest that needs## to be protected is the national# interest of the United States.

LIZ LANDERS: Other Republicans# lined up behind Sessions,## and although the bill passed in the# Senate, it eventually died in the House.

A few years later, Donald Trump# entered the political scene,## voicing his hard-line stance on immigration.

ASHLEY PARKER: The first senator to come on# board and endorse Donald Trump was Jeff Sessions,## and very shortly thereafter Stephen# Miller joins the Trump campaign.

LIZ LANDERS: Miller soon began writing speeches# for Trump with a heavy focus on immigration,## including his acceptance speech# at the 2016 Republican National## Convention in Cleveland that summer.

DONALD TRUMP: We are going to build a great# border wall to stop illegal immigration.

(CHEERING) LIZ LANDERS: Miller also delivered his# own speeches on the campaign trail.

STEPHEN MILLER: Everybody who is# trying to stop Donald J. Trump## wants that border to stay wide open.

They want## illegal immigrants to continue pouring in.

They# do not want to protect the American people.

ASHLEY PARKER: What it really is, is a# pairing, a kind of natural pairing of## two like-minded individuals when it comes# to immigration.

This was not a place where## Stephen Miller really had to pull Donald# Trump to the right or to the extreme, but## he did sort of provide an intellectual framework# and policy understanding and philosophy of these## views that Trump sort of intuited, but might# not have originally been able to articulate.

JOHN ROBERTS, Chief Justice of the U.S.# Supreme Court: Please raise your right hand.

LIZ LANDERS: President Trump quickly# put those words to action once he## entered the White House.

And as a# senior adviser to the president,## Miller was one of the architects of# some of his most controversial policies.

DONALD TRUMP: And this is the protection of the## nation from foreign terrorist# entry into the United States.

LIZ LANDERS: That includes the executive# order dubbed the Muslim travel ban.## It barred foreign nationals of seven# predominantly Muslim countries from## visiting the U.S.

and was an early signal of# how Trump would assert executive authority.

STEPHEN MILLER: Our opponents, the# media and the whole world will soon see,## as we begin to take further actions, that# the powers of the president to protect our## country are very substantial# and will not be questioned.

LIZ LANDERS: It also included the# administration's zero-tolerance## immigration policy of separating migrant# children from their parents at the border.

DAVID MUIR, "World News# Tonight" Anchor: Late today,## President Trump signing an .. LIZ LANDERS: Trump eventually ended# that policy amid political pressure## and the courts halted and narrowed the travel ban.

After President Trump's loss to Joe Biden in 2020,## Miller echoed lies that the election was# stolen.

He described on TV that December## the scheme to seat fake pro-Trump# electors to overturn the results.

STEPHEN MILLER: So we have more than enough# time to right the wrong of this fraudulent## election result and certify Donald# Trump as the winner of the election.

LIZ LANDERS: Ashley Parker says Miller# spent the time after Trump's 2020 loss## strategizing for a potential second term.

ASHLEY PARKER: He's learned things in# the first term.

He now understands,## for instance, why the travel ban executive# order he wrote in Trump's first term## was kind of a disaster.

It created chaos at# the airports.

There was a huge backlash in## the country and it was struck down by# the courts.

He now understands how to## craft that order in a way that will be far# more effective in achieving their goals.

And so he comes back with sort of a# battle plan for what he will do and## how he will do it if and when# Trump retakes the White House.

LIZ LANDERS: Trump tapped Miller# to be his deputy chief of staff## for policy when he returned to the# White House.

With Miller's oversight,## the administration hit the ground running# by issuing a flood of executive orders.

Miller has continued to push# his anti-immigration agenda.## He came up with a strategy of using the Alien# Enemies Act to quickly carry out deportations... STEPHEN MILLER: Birthright citizenship is the# biggest, costliest scam in financial history.

LIZ LANDERS: ... and has been a vocal# supporter of President Trump's executive## order ending birthright citizenship, which# the Supreme Court is set to rule on this term.

CHAD WOLF, Former Acting U.S.

Secretary# of Homeland Security: I think he's got## a more expansive rol.. LIZ LANDERS: Chad Wolf served as# acting homeland security secretary## during Trump's first term and# worked closely with Miller.

CHAD WOLF: He comes armed in this administration# with a lot more experience than I would say than## he did showing up in 2017.

I think he understood# immigration.

But then the question is, how do you## effectuate the policy within that executive# branch, within DHS, the Department of Justice## and State Department?

I think he understands# that a lot better today than he did then.

LIZ LANDERS: And last month, Miller delivered# the administration's early and forceful pushback## after the deadly shooting of Alex Pretti by# immigration agents in Minneapolis, calling## the ICU nurse a would-be assassin, before walking# that back as videos of the incident circulated.

Miller's role has expanded beyond immigration,## playing a key role in foreign# policy from Venezuela to Greenland.

STEPHEN MILLER: You can talk all you want about# international niceties and everything else,## but we live in a world, in the real world,## Jake, that is governed by strength, that is# governed by force, that is governed by power.

LIZ LANDERS: Ashley Parker says# it's all a sign that Stephen## Miller's importance has only grown this term.

ASHLEY PARKER: In the first Trump# administration, Stephen Miller was a## senior adviser.

He was incredibly powerful.

He# had the trust of the president.

But this term,## it is that on steroids.

And it is hard to# overstate just how broad Stephen Miller's## purview is in Trump's second term and# just how powerful and important he is.

LIZ LANDERS: "PBS News Hour" asked the# White House for an interview with Miller## for this report.

They did not make him available.

But White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt# sent this statement -- quote -- "Stephen Miller## is one of President Trump's most# trusted and longest-serving aides.## The president loves Stephen," further# evidence that, as Miller's portfolio## has grown inside the White House, so too# has his influence with President Trump.

GEOFF BENNETT: The Washington Post is laying# off a third of its work force across both the## newsroom and its business operations,# a massive blow at a storied newspaper## that has struggled in recent years to# stay profitable and retain subscribers.## The cuts reportedly affect more than 300# of the approximately 800 journalists in## the newsroom and include eliminating its# sports desk and books section entirely.

The Post's executive editor said the changes,## though painful, were meant to -- quote# -- "reinvent the paper for a new era."

For more on these cuts and their# implications, we're joined now by## Marty Baron, who was the editor of The# Washington Post from 2012 until 2021.

Welcome back to the "News Hour."

MARTY BARON, Former Executive Editor, The# Washington Post: Thanks for having me.

GEOFF BENNETT: You have described# this as among the darkest days## in The Post's history.

What do these# layoffs mean for the paper's mission## and its ability to continue doing# in-depth, substantial reporting?

MARTY BARON: Well, I think it's important to# keep in mind just how widespread these cuts are,## not only the sports desk, the books department,# but pretty much the entire arts department,## eviscerating the foreign staff, largely# eviscerating the local staff as well.

So these are huge, huge cuts, and they're going to## be -- they're going to do enormous damage to# the newspaper's ability to cover its community,## to cover the country, and to cover the# world in all the ways that it should.

GEOFF BENNETT: The executive editor, Matt Murray,## said today that the paper's structure was built# for a different era and that refocusing on## what he calls these core coverage areas like# politics and national security will help The## Post better navigate technological change,# shifting audience habits, cost pressures.

Do you buy that argument?

MARTY BARON: Well, I think Matt is# doing a really good job as editor## of The Post.

The Post is doing# extraordinary journalism every## single day.

And I commend them for# that.

I admire what they're doing.

That said, they have announced -- they seem# to have announced a new strategy just about## once a year now, saying that it would better# position themselves for the future.

And none## of those things have worked.

I don't think what# they're doing now helps position them for the## future.

It diminishes the brand.

It diminishes# the coverage.

It offers less to their readers.

They're going to have fewer subscribers# as a result of this, probably not more.

So## I understand why Matt is saying that.# He has to say something positive about## what's happening.

But I don't think# there's very much positive to say.

GEOFF BENNETT: You served as editor under Jeff# Bezos back in 2013 when he purchased the paper## and pledged long-term investment and support for# the newsroom.

What do you make of what appears to## be a shift in both his relationship to the paper# and his willingness to invest in its future?

MARTY BARON: Well, he was great at# the beginning, and for a long time,## as a matter of fact.

He set out a vision for The# Post to be national and international, as opposed## to regional, which it was largely before.

He# invested heavily in The Post.

We innovated## tremendously over the years.

We grew tremendously# as well, practically doubling the staff.

And we were profitable for about six# straight years.

And so that was a lot## of progress.

He was proud of it.

He spoke# proudly of it.

And so now we're seeing a## diminished outlook.

And I think that he# became sort of detached in about 2019,## when his marriage broke up, when# Amazon was struggling later in 2020,## when the -- Amazon was struggling with# the pandemic and all the aspects of that.

And then I think he really became -- took# a real turn after it looked like Trump## was going to be elected president yet again.# And that was in 2024.

And 11 days before the## presidential election in 2024, they# killed an editorial for -- that was## endorsing Kamala Harris.

He said the paper# wouldn't endorse ever again for president.

And hundreds of thousands of# subscribers canceled at that time,## aggravating the financial problems# that they had.

Subsequent to that,## he did all sorts of things that made things# even worse, appearing at the inauguration on## the stage with Donald Trump, buying the Melania# so-called documentary for an exorbitant price,## buying the right -- Amazon buying# the rights to "The Apprentice."

And Amazon had bought the rights to Melania's# documentary as well.

And then completely## changing the opinion pages so that essentially# they have no columnists who are really left## of center.

And they're very deferential to# Trump.

And I think they lack a moral core.

And so all of that has driven subscribers# away.

And so for every subscriber that## they get coming in through the front door# because of the high-quality news coverage,## I think they're losing maybe two# subscribers out the back door.

Of course,## I don't know the numbers exactly, but clearly# they have been losing a lot of subscribers.

GEOFF BENNETT: Why does an institution like The## Washington Post matter at# this moment in particular?

MARTY BARON: Look, I think# it's the reason that every## news organization matters.

It's an organization.

I think the role of a news organization is to give# the public the information it needs and deserves## to know so that they can govern themselves.# The Washington Post has a long history of that,## and particularly of holding the government to# account, keeping a close eye on government.

That happened, of course, during Watergate.# I think we did that when I was editor on## the first round of the -- Trump's time in the# White House, his first term.

And they continue## to do that today.

I think they're doing a# tremendous job of that.

People need to know## what's happening in their government.

They need to# know what's happening in the corridors of power,## whether in government or in business or# in nonprofits or wherever it might be.

And they need to know what's happening# around the world.

So if you don't have## reporters around the world, you're not# going to know what's happening.

And we## need more than one news organization doing that.# We need multiple news organizations doing that.

So, look, the press is built into our democracy.# It is provided for in the First Amendment to the## Constitution because the founders understood# that you needed an institution that would keep## watch on government.

And James Madison, who# was the principal author of that amendment,## talked about the need for freely# examining public characters and measures.

We are not stenographers and we should not# be propagandists.

And that is the role that## The Washington Post has historically played, and# that's the role that it should continue to play.

GEOFF BENNETT: Marty Baron, thank you for# your time this evening.

We appreciate it.

MARTY BARON: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, if you have been following# Miles O'Brien's reports from Antarctica on## our broadcast and online, you know he's# reporting on an international group of## researchers trying to measure what's happening# to one of the fastest melting glaciers there.

And their work is trying to capture information# in ways that have never been done before.

Tonight, he has an update on how all that turned# out, part of our periodic series Tipping Point.

MILES O'BRIEN: At long last, they# got to the core of this far-flung## mission.

Hot water was sluicing through# glacier ice like a knife through butter,## a milestone moment at the most# menacing glacier of all, Thwaites.

It was a long, strange journey to get to this# place and time, 11 days on a Korean icebreaker## from New Zealand to West Antarctica, 10 days# waiting for the clouds to lift so the helicopters## could too, and 10 more setting up camp on the# vast void in the teeth of harsh Antarctic winds.

MAN: Finally.

(LAUGHTER) MILES O'BRIEN: R.. British Antarctic Survey, BAS.

They wrote# the book on this blitzkrieg boring method.

Pete Davis is a physical oceanographer.

PETER DAVIS, British Antarctic Survey: We# shovel for days and then the wind -- the## wind was too strong.

We had to delay.

It partly# is uncomfortable for us, but also the windchill## factor.

It just makes everything freeze,# and freezing, as we say, our worst enemy.

MILES O'BRIEN: This glacier is large enough# to raise global sea levels 2.5 feet.

It is## a river of ice flowing at a rate of 30# feet per day, ripping apart into chaotic## rifts strewn with ice boulders, melting# tens of times faster than its neighbors.

And this is the perfect spot to figure out why.# It's on the grounding line where the glacier,## the land and the Amundsen Sea meet 3,000 feet# below.

It was a little after 4:00 p.m.

January## 30 when they broke through the bottom of the# ice.

As they reeled in the hot water hose,## Pete Davis showed me a mother lode of# scientific instruments ready for dunking,## devices that measure salinity, temperature,# depth, current and dissolved oxygen.

PETER DAVIS: This is the take-up data.

If# we get this down to the bottom of the ocean,## even if we don't recover it, we have a profile.## And that is 100 percent more data# than we've ever had from here before.

MILES O'BRIEN: On the other side of the tent,# the mooring instruments designed to gather## all those readings continuously for perhaps a# year, transmitting the data in near real time.

PETER DAVIS: What we're trying to study here,## more to do with kind of processes and# the proc.. than enough to see the processes in action# and to get the understanding that we want.

MILES O'BRIEN: As Friday slipped into# Saturday in this place of no sunsets,## the temperature dropped, measured# invisible breath and what looked## like an invisible driller, his# gloves warming up on a hot hose.

The team gave the sensors a warm bath and# sent them down.

They got five profiles of## the water below, a successful# warmup act for the main event,## the mooring that would stay behind.

Down it# went.

But around 1:30 p.m.

on January 31,## there was trouble below.

Pete Davis logged into# the mooring instruments.

It looked good at first,## but then he realized they all had# identical temperature readings.

PETER DAVIS: OK, I'm pretty sure we're# stuck.

I think we are stuck at about## 650 decibars.

I'll come down and discuss options.

MAN: Thank you.

MILES O'BRIEN: They pulled a little bit,## but everyone here knew they'd lose this# tug of war.

Remember, freezing is their## worst enemy.

When super cold glacier ice# grabs an instrument, there is no plan B. KEITH MAKINSON, British Antarctic Survey: If# you linger at any one location with equipment,## it could freeze to the side.

And, unfortunately,# something along those lines happened.

MILES O'BRIEN: Keith Makinson# is a 37-year BAS veteran.## The instruments are frozen solid 2,300 feet below# the surface, 650 feet from the bottom of the ice.## The exhausted tight-knit team tried to console# each other, but there's a deep well of sadness.

KEITH MAKINSON: The whole team has worked really# hard for many years.

It's a really hard blow.

MILES O'BRIEN: And yet they did not walk away# empty handed.

They have a snapshot of data## from a place where none existed before.

And it's# not a pretty picture.

The water temperature here## is nearly 34 degrees, 5.5 degrees warmer than# the freezing point of glacier ice in seawater.

There's no question why the glacier# is melting.

But the forecast they## hoped to give the world remains elusive.# Antarctica does not give up its secrets## easily.

But the people who come here# to unlock them won't give up either.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Miles# O'Brien at the Thwaites Glacier.

GEOFF BENNETT: The Alvin Ailey# American Dance Theater has just## launched a 20-city U.S.

tour# under its new artistic director,## Alicia Graf Mack.

She's a renowned former# Ailey dancer herself and an educator who is## now fusing those roles to lead the modern# dance troupe which started back in 1958.

She joined me in the studio this week as# part of our arts and culture series, Canvas.

Alicia Graf Mack, welcome to the "News Hour."

ALICIA GRAF MACK, Artistic Director, Alvin# Ailey American Dance Theater: Thank you.## It's a pleasure to b.. GEOFF BENNETT: You're only the fourth artistic# director in the 70-year hist.. and you're launching your first season by# opening a national tour here in Washington.

When you step into rehearsal# now or even a performance,## what feels most different from the last# time, when you danced with the company?

ALICIA GRAF MACK: It does feel like# a wonderful homecoming to return to## the company now in this role, as I had# danced with the company for six years.

I have a great responsibility to hold this# very important organization in my hands.## I am so supported by the artistic team,# by our administration, by our audience,## by the community in this work.

And it# feels like nothing short of a blessing.

GEOFF BENNETT: I saw where you said# previously that the organization is## really rooted in Alvin Ailey's big dream.

How do you honor the specificity of# his vision and the tradition of Ailey,## while still making space for new voices# and new pieces, new choreography?

ALICIA GRAF MACK: Mr.

Ailey set# the blueprint so many years ago.

When he founded the company, he not only wanted to# highlight his own choreographic voice and create## the works that he made, as he said, from his# blood memories of growing up in rural South,## in Texas, but also that he wanted to provide# a platform for emerging choreographers,## for new voices and specifically# for choreographers of color,## as there was not that many platforms# for those artists to share their work.

And so this is the blueprint that I follow even# now, in 2026, that we honor his voice, and we## always perform his works, including "Revelations,"# which is a work that is seen by more people around## the world than any other modern dance work,# also that we find voices that reflect what## we are going through today, voices who will bring# their authentic truth and identities to the stage.

GEOFF BENNETT: To your point, I mean you've# emphasized that Ailey is for everyone.

It's## not in elitist art form.

In practical terms,# what does that accessibility look like?

ALICIA GRAF MACK: The Ailey organization is all# about accessibility.

The dancers, of course,## are elite artists.

They are world-class# dancers, but we are open for everyone.

We have an extensive school that offers dance# education for everyone and we also have an arts## and education and community outreach# program that touches students around## the country from curriculum in the school# systems to free performances for children.

GEOFF BENNETT: What did teaching dance reveal to## you about where the art form is# versus where you want it to go?

ALICIA GRAF MACK: Part of the work is# to empower the artist, the student,## the dancer to know their own story, their# own identity and to be able to let that## shine on stage and just watch them reach their# -- what I call their moving moments on stage,## these very high points that artists# on a very high level reach sometimes.

It's the high that you get when# everything comes together, the music,## the movement, the idea.

There's nothing like it.

GEOFF BENNETT: Let's talk more about that,## because you first experienced the magic# of Alv.. dreams.

Now you're launching your tour# here in your hometown, Washington, D.C.

What does that full circle moment,# what does that mean to you?

ALICIA GRAF MACK: It's everything.

I can recall## Ailey being my North Star# from the time I was a child.

And my parents -- I grew up in# Columbia, Maryland.

They would## expose me to dance both in Baltimore and# Washington and all around.

Being a young## person and seeing your dream on stage# and seeing people who look like you,## that the idea that representation matters# is real, that work is so important.

And it's so important that we keep the arts alive,## especially in the environment and# culture that we're living in today.

GEOFF BENNETT: A new sense of hope, and# there are also new works on stage that## people will see.

They pull from popular# music, folklore, spirituality, ancestry.

What connects the work thematically?

ALICIA GRAF MACK: All the works# that we perform are visceral.

When the dancers move, the audience will# feel affected by what they're doing.

We're## all about spirit, humanity, and truth.

There's# also an idea that the work is not so elite or## heady.

You can sit and enjoy it and feel# something, and I think that's really important.

GEOFF BENNETT: You have worked under# Judith Jamison.

You've worked under## Robert Battle.

Your experience really embodies the## legacy of Ailey.

How do you bring all# of that to bear in your current role?

ALICIA GRAF MACK: That is so correct.

I was hired by Judith Jamison when I first# started in 2005... I've looked up to forever, as she was a very# tall Black woman.

I myself am quite tall.

And## to know that she saw my gifts and my# instrument as an asset to the company## is one of the many ways in which the Ailey# organization has changed the climate and## the field in itself, that we look for# artists who are unique in every way.

And all that Robert Battle brought,# especially in his sense of curation## and bringing different voices to the# table.

I take all of that with me.

GEOFF BENNETT: When audiences encounter this tour,## when they leave the theater, what# do you want them to walk away with?

ALICIA GRAF MACK: I want them to understand# that, in the present moment, that we are boldly## presenting our work and that we are bravely# standing on that stage all over the world.

But I also want them to have a sense of# the history from where we come and the## legacy that Alvin Ailey set forth,# which required so much bravery,## so much courage in 1958.

And if Mr.

Ailey could# do that in 1958, I certainly can do that in 2026.

GEOFF BENNETT: Alicia Graf Mack, a real# pleasure to speak with you.

Thank you.

ALICIA GRAF MACK: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT:## And that's the "News Hour" for# tonight.

I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "PBS News Hour,"# thanks for spending part of your evening with us.