AMNA NAWAZ: Good evening.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

On the "News Hour" tonight: FBI agents raid# an.. as part of a probe into the 2020 election, which# President Trump continues to falsely claim he won.

AMNA NAWAZ: Political tensions intensify, as# a Minnesota Democrat is attacked at a town## hall and Congress faces another# potential government shutdown.

GEOFF BENNETT: And a family detention# center criticized for substandard living## conditions is put on lockdown.

We speak to# the lawyer of one family being kept there.

ERIC LEE, Immigration Attorney: This is# the reaction of the Trump administration## to individuals expressing their free speech rights## both inside these facilities# and outside these facilities.

(BREAK) GEOFF BENNETT: Welcome to the "News Ho.. The FBI executed a search warrant at# an election center in Fulton County,## Georgia, today seeking records# related to the 2020 election.

AMNA NAWAZ: Federal agents were seen entering# the office outside of Atlanta this afternoon.## Baseless claims of voter fraud in# Fulton County have been a focus of## President Trump since he lost the 2020 election.

Our White House correspondent, Liz Landers, has# been following all of this, and she joins us now.

So, Liz, the search is a remarkable# escalation of the president's unfounded## claims about the 2020 election.# What do we know about what happened?

LIZ LANDERS: The FBI confirming to us this# afternoon that they are conducting what## they say is a court-authorized law enforcement# action at that Fulton County election center.

And just moments before we got on the air,# we obtained the search warrant that they## have there in Georgia.

It was signed today by a# federal judge.

And in it, it gives us some more## information about what the FBI is seeking.# It says they're looking for physical ballots## from the 2020 election, envelopes, provisional# ballots, ballot images and voter rolls, Amna.

So I spoke earlier with David Becker, who's# an elections attorney and former Department of## Justice civil rights attorney, and he said that# the ballots in Fulton County have been counted## many times.

They have been counted three times# actually.

And one of those times was by hand.

So the idea that the FBI may find something# new here is unlikely.

But, as you mentioned,## this remains a fixture for the president.

He# continues to lie about the 2020 election results,## and in particular in Georgia.

Remember he had that# phone call with the secretary of state in 2021,## Brad Raffensperger, where he asked him# to find basically the vote margin that## would push him over the edge to# win the state of Georgia there.

Just last week, the president said in a# speech, people will soon be prosecuted## for what they did in the 2020 election.

Amna,# he talks about this on almost a daily basis.

AMNA NAWAZ: Liz, we're at the beginning# of another election year.

How does## what we saw today play into the larger# preparations for those upcoming midterms?

LIZ LANDERS: That's right.

This# comes as the Trump administration## has been requesting voter information# from states.

And the president hints## that he thinks he could use the National# Guard to, in his view, secure elections.

I spoke earlier with two secretaries# of state, Democrat Shenna Bellows of## Maine and Republican Michael Adams of# Kentucky about this raid today and how## they're preparing for elections this year amid# debates over ballot security and voter access.

Welcome to "News Hour."

Thanks# so much for joining us here.

MICHAEL ADAMS (R), Kentucky# Secretary of State: Thank you.

SHENNA BELLOWS (D), Maine Secretary# of State: It's.. LIZ LANDERS: Secretary Bellows, I want# to start with you about some.. the day that we're hearing today.

What# is your reaction to this FBI search of## the Fulton County Georgia elections# office?

This is apparently part of a## probe related to the 2020 election.# What do you make of that search?

SHENNA BELLOWS: We're still waiting for more# information, but this is deeply concerning.

The fact that the lies of 2020# have not ended and we're still## relitigating the presidential election# then, these lies are very dangerous.## And I think it's really concerning and# doesn't bode well for 2026 and 2028.

LIZ LANDERS: Secretary Adams, are you concerned# that DOJ could target other states like this?

MICHAEL ADAMS: Well, I think it's# really telling that we have had,## I think, 24 states now in litigation with the DOJ# on our voter rolls, and there's .. So I don't want to overread into this where# they might be there.

My understanding is,## this is a situation where the state election# board is adverse to the county of Fulton and## has asked the DOJ to intervene.

So that# doesn't mean that it's all fine.

I don't## know more facts than you do about it,# but I don't rush to judgment on it.

LIZ LANDERS: Secretary Bellows, last week# Attorney General Pam Bondi sent a letter## to Minnesota to the governor there on Saturday# right after that fatal shooting that we saw in## Minneapolis asking the governor to in part turn# over voter rolls to the Department of Justice.

Your state is experiencing right# now a surge in federal immigration## agents.

Has the attorney general sent# a letter like this to you?

And why do## you think the Department of Justice is# gunning so hard to get this information?

SHENNA BELLOWS: So I think it's deeply concerning.

And keep in mind, for your viewers in# Maine, ICE is surging.

They're calling it.. grotesquely, Catch of the Day, which# is just truly gross.

We're in the## bottom quartile in terms of percentage of# immigrants, refugees, and asylum seekers.

So for them to send a letter on the heels# of the killing of Alex Pretti and demand## Minnesota's voter rolls as a condition for# ICE leaving indicates that ICE's presence## in Minnesota isn't really about immigration at# all.

It's about intimidating election officials.

And we're going to continue to fight to protect# the integrity of American voter information,## because the Constitution places the# states, not the federal government,## not the president, in charge of elections.

LIZ LANDERS: Secretary Adams, I# know that you have provided the## Department of Justice some of the# public voter files right now.

How## are you complying with this and# navigating this as a Republican?

MICHAEL ADAMS: So I think there are# opposite poles here.

One poll is never,## ever cooperate with the administration.

And that's# not the right posture, I don't think, on the law.

The other is just give everything# that they ask for and not run your## traps.

We're doing something more in the# middle, which is that we have our own## data privacy laws in Kentucky.

We have our# own personal privacy laws in Kentucky.

And## any citizen of the United States can# ask for our voter rolls and many do.

And every campaign asks for them.# The state parties asked for them,## and we provide that information.# But when we're dealing with people's## personally identifying information, their driver's# license number, their Social Security number,## that's in a different field.

We don't give# those to the candidates and the parties.

Candidly, the law is not super clear on# this.

No one -- no DOJ has ever asked## for this before.

So there's no FAQ on my# Web site to tell me what to do on it.

So## it may come down to litigation.

It may# come down to us getting guidance from## the courts to see where the federal# law stops and the state law begins.

SHENNA BELLOWS: And I appreciate# what Secretary Adams is saying,## because I think this is really important.# We're an open book with regards to what we do,## our procedures, our list maintenance.

We provided# that information to the Department of Justice.

Where we draw the line is the sensitive# personal data of every American.

LIZ LANDERS: What are you both doing to reassure# both the public and the Trump administration that## the elections in your states are secure?

Because# we hear the president questioning that frequently.

SHENNA BELLOWS: We see it in# terms of voter turnout.

So,## Maine routinely ranks in the top of the nation# in voter participation.

In 2022, we were## number one.

Minnesota was number two.

In 2024,# Minnesota was number one.

We were number two.

And, in fact, election integrity was on# the ballot in Maine just this past November## with a question about voter I.D.

and absentee# voting; 63 percent of Mainers voted, basically## showing their confidence in our elections by# rejecting any changes to our election laws.

So we do believe our elections are free,# safe and secure.

We have post-election## audits.

We have frequent recounts given how# close, how purple Maine is.

And the voters## tell us that they think our elections are# free, safe and secure because they show up.

MICHAEL ADAMS: Well, at the risk of bragging, I'm# the top vote getter in my state of both parties,## so I think that's a big vote of# confidence in our election process.

But also the Trump administration# has routinely filed briefs and other## pleadings in cases that we have in federal# court, taking our side of the argument on## saying that we don't need to be supervised# by a federal court on our voter rolls,## that they're clean, that they're# up to date, they're accurate.

So I feel like we have to date satisfied both the# public in my state and also the administration.

LIZ LANDERS: Secretary Bellows,# the president recently told The## New York Times that he regretted# not ordering the National Guard## to seize voting machines in swing# states after those 2020 elections.

What would you do as the top elections official in## Maine if he made that request# after the midterms this year?

SHENNA BELLOWS: We would not give him the ballots# or -- and I think this is important, right?

The Constitution places responsibility for the# elections in the people that the people trust,## the people closest to them on the ground,# the local and state election officials.

And## in Maine, we have strict chain of# custody controls over our ballots,## when the ballots are centralized for# recounts or ranked-choice voting.

There are only two people that# have the key.

One of them is me.## And he is not getting our ballots.# He's not getting our voter rolls.

LIZ LANDERS: Is that something# you would comply with?

MICHAEL ADAMS: I would comply with any legal court# order, but I wouldn't just t.. issued to me and let that trump the law of my# own state.

I'd follow the law of my own state.

LIZ LANDERS: Both of you work closely# with local election officials in your## states.

What's the biggest operational# challenges that you're facing right now?

I will start with you, Secretary Bellows.

SHENNA BELLOWS: So we're really challenged# to recruit folks int.. retirement of the Baby Boomers and# also fears about threats because## of misinformation and lies about the election.

So it's a much more challenging environment.# So we're always working hard to recruit new## clerks, to train our folks.

And I think# that's probably the biggest challenge.

MICHAEL ADAMS: So I was elected in 2019.# And before I was even sworn in 2020,## I was called to my legislature and asked,# what's the biggest concern that I had?

And I said having enough poll workers# and enough voting locations.

And that## was before COVID.

It was before# all the stuff that we have seen,## all the crazy elections the last several# years.

And that's an ongoing issue.

To Secretary Bellows' point, our generation# is just not volunteering at the level that## our parents did and grandparents did.# But we also have locations that don't## want to be voting locations anymore.# Schools are nervous about being public## voting locations.

They're worried about# active shooters being able to scope out## buildings and look for ways in and then# come back later when the kids are there.

Churches are getting more -- either more# political or apolitical, but, either way,## they have less comfort with being a voting# location.

So it's getting harder for us to## recruit people to want to be part of# the process and locations as well.

LIZ LANDERS: You two are here in the area# for a conference right now.

Talk about the## relationship between you as secretaries of state.# What is the information-sharing like right now?

MICHAEL ADAMS: We talk every day,# not all 50 of us to each other, but## I'm in lots of calls with these folks.# We have regular calls every Thursday## at 3:00 or what have you.

But we also# have a lot of private conversations.

And one thing that's changed over# time is, when I first got here,## it was really a debating society between those# of us on the right and those of us on the left## about voter I.D.

and other little things.# And then we went through 2020 together.

And## then the misinformation stuff wasn't just# about certain states.

It was all 50 of us## dealing with the same threats on our person, the# same threats to the system, the same concerns.

We really kind of bonded over that,# because we're all fighting the same battle.

SHENNA BELLOWS: I think that's right.

And I think, on election securi.. back in 2023 and 2024, I was threatened and# doxxed and swatted.

And when I came to the## NAAS (ph) conference, my Republican colleagues# were giving me hugs and praying for me.

I do think that there is a lot of bipartisan# conversation and dialogue.

We are not going## to agree on certain policies.

But I think this# is something that the American people can have## confidence in.

It doesn't matter what state# you are in, whether it's Maine or Kentucky.

We may not agree on certain voting# rights policies, but in terms of the## integrity of election administration,# in terms of the checks and balances,## and the state and local control of the elections,# that's something that I think we all really value.

And I think it's really important today.

LIZ LANDERS: Secretary Bellows, Secretary# Adams, thank you so much for joining us.

MICHAEL ADAMS: Thank you.

SHENNA BELLOWS: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: We start today'.. Homeland Security officials now say that the# two federal agents who fired shots in the## death of U.S.

citizen Alex Pretti have been# on administrative leave since it happened on## Saturday.

That contradicts a prior comment# from Border Patrol official Gregory Bovino,## who had said the agents had been transferred,## but were still working.

They have# not been publicly identified.

It follows Trump aide Stephen Miller# suggesting yesterday that the agents## may not have been following# protocol before the shooting.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio today# defended the Trump administration's## military operation to seize# then-Venezuelan President## Nicolas Maduro.

Appearing before the# Senate Foreign Relations Committee,## Rubio said President Trump had acted to take# out a major national security threat to the U.S.

During what was the first public hearing since the# January 3 raid, Rubio also pledged to work with## Venezuelan authorities to stabilize that country.# And he stressed that there was no other option.

MARCO RUBIO, U.S.

Secretary of State:# You couldn't make a deal with this guy,## right?

This guy has made multiple# deals.

He's broken every one of## them.

It's not going to be like from one# day to the next we're going to have this## thing turn around overnight.

But I think# we're making good and decent progress.

GEOFF BENNETT: Democratic Senator# Tammy Duckworth pressed Rubio over## the administration's decision to invoke# a wartime law when entering Venezuela.

SEN.

TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): And the president has# already said that he's not ruled out the military## option.

And you have also just said that, yes,# we are at war.

The president has wartime powers.

MARCO RUBIO: But every president retains# the power to use military protection.

SEN.

TAMMY DUCKWORTH: So, it's# reasonable for me to ask you... MARCO RUBIO: And I gave you a# very specific example.

Every## president retains the right to defend the# United States against an imminent threat.

GEOFF BENNETT: During his testimony, the secretary# of state also tried to ease concerns among## Democratic lawmakers about the administration's# approach to Greenland NATO, Iran, and China.

The Federal Reserve is hitting the brakes on# interest rate cuts after three cuts last year.## It comes despite relentless pressure from the# Trump administration to lower rates even more.

Speaking this afternoon, Federal Reserve Chair# Jerome Powell said the economy's outlook has## clearly improved since the Fed's last meeting# in December.

That's despite stubbornly high## inflation.

And he signaled that Fed officials# see little reason to rush further cuts.

JEROME POWELL, Federal Reserve Chairman:# The economy's growing at a solid pace.

The## unemployment rate has been broadly stable,# and inflation remains somewhat elevated.## So we will be looking to our goal variables# and letting the data light the way for us.

GEOFF BENNETT: Powell was asked about his# appearance last week at the U.S.

Supreme Court for## a hearing into the Trump administration's efforts# to remove Fed Governor Lisa Cook.

Powell called## it -- quote -- "perhaps the most important# legal case in the Fed's 113-year history."

Weather officials are warning of what# they're calling the longest duration## of cold in several decades for parts of# the Southern and Eastern U.S.

Many areas## remain covered in ice following last weekend's# storm that has now claimed at least 50 lives.

In Mississippi, crews worked to restore power# and clear trees toppled by last weekend's winter## storm.

Nearly 400,000 customers were still# without power today from Texas to Tennessee.

Further north, in places like Pennsylvania,## many people have been waiting days for# their streets to be plowed.

That's as## another significant winter storm looks set# to hit the Eastern U.S.

this coming weekend.

For the first time in history, a# woman now leads the Church of England.

WOMAN: Archbishop Sarah, we welcome you.

CONGREGATION: We welcome you.

GEOFF BENNETT: Sarah Mullally was officially# confirmed as the 106th archbishop of Canterbury## at a ceremony today at St.

Paul's Cathedral# in London.

The 63-year-old former nurse will## serve as the spiritual leader for some# 85 million Anglicans around the world,## though King Charles remains# supreme governor of the church.

Mullally takes over and mid-divisions# on issues like the role of women in the## church and its treatment of LGBTQ people.# And while her legal duties begin today,## she will start her public-facing work# after one final ceremony in March.

Football fans are fuming over news that former# New England head coach Bill Belichick is not## going to be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

ESPN# first reported that the eight-time Super Bowl## champion fell short of the required vote# threshold in his first year of eligibility.## His longtime quarterback Tom Brady told a# sports radio program: "I don't understand it."

Three-time Super Bowl champion Patrick Mahomes# called the news insane.

And NBA legend LeBron## James called the snub disrespectful.

Belichick's# career was not without controversy.

In 2007,## he was fined $500,000 after New England# was caught filming signals from an opposing## team.

The NFL will formally announce this# year's Hall of Fame class on February 5.

Amazon is cutting about 16,000# corporate jobs and says further## layoffs are possible.

It's the second# round of cuts for the e-commerce giant## in just the past few months.

And it comes# a day after the company said it's closing## the rest of its brick-and-mortar# Amazon Go and Amazon Fresh stores.

The online retailer has been# slashing costs as it turns its## attention to A.I.

Shares of Amazon# ended slightly lower after the news.

Elsewhere on Wall Street today,# stocks mostly held steady after## that Fed decision.

The Dow Jones industrial# average added 12 points, so basically flat.## The Nasdaq managed to gain up about# 40 points.

The S&P 500 crossed the## 7000-point threshold for the first time# today, before ending virtually unchanged.

Still to come on the "News Hour": the leader of# New Jersey's largest Catholic diocese calls for## defunding ICE after the killings of U.S.

citizens;# Judy Woodruff kicks off another year of America## at a Crossroads by asking what it means to be# an American; and our science correspondent,## Miles O'Brien, on the 40th anniversary of# this space shuttle Challenger disaster.

AMNA NAWAZ: For U.S.

senators, today was# the first full day back in Washington after## the killing of Alex Pretti and ahead# of their Friday deadline to fund the## Department of Homeland Security and some# of the government's other large agencies.

They arrived as news is still unfolding on the## Pretti shooting and as another# lawmaker faced a new threat.

Our congressional correspondent, Lisa# Desjardins, joins me now for more on all of this.

So, Lisa, we have been covering the# outrage after the Pretti shooting,## the sense that something# shifted.

As you talk to senators,## are you sensing a shift in how they're# viewing the immigration crackdown?

LISA DESJARDINS: We did.

We have# been watching that carefully.

And, today, I have to tell you we heard# from Republicans a new kind of very open## sense that federal enforcement officers# went too far in a dangerous way.

Now,## some of them word this carefully, but, more,# we are seeing Republicans say this sharply.

That includes Homeland# Security Chairman Rand Paul.

SEN.

RAND PAUL (R-KY): We can't just# say, oh, nothing to see here, and he## was obviously an assassin and a domestic# terrorist.

When we say things like that,## it leads to no confidence in -- so I think there# really has to be an independent investigation.

And this is going to be an investigation# outside of DHS.

They should themselves## immediately appoint a commission.

If# they don't, I think Congress may do it.

LISA DESJARDINS: So there we# go, a commission potentially.

Now, Rand Paul is known to break with# President Trump, but I heard this kind## of idea, concern from more Republicans# who don't usually do that.

Of course,## for Democrats, it's more than just concern.

An example is this from Senator# Cory Booker of New Jersey: SEN.

CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): This agency is out of# control.

Its leadership is out of control.

Its## leadership should step down, if not be impeached.# So we are in a serious, serious crisis right now.

LISA DESJARDINS: And there# are calls to impeach Kristi## Noem.

We're going to be talking# more about that in coming days.

But I want to also point out one other group# of Republicans.

These are Republicans who say,## even as they express some concern about# ICE, that they think protesters are being## too aggressive.

One example of# that is Florida's Rick Scott.

SEN.

RICK SCOTT (R-FL): You have a# right to protest in this country,## but you don't have a right to interfere with# law enforcement.

So don't be stupid.

Don't## interfere with law enforcement.

We all are going# to have to work together to get the criminals out## of our country.

Local law enforcement should be# working to work hand in glove with ICE right now.

LISA DESJARDINS: One other standout# note, Republican Leader John Thune## told reporters he thinks this is in# fact potentially an inflection moment.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, when it comes to leaders who have# concerns about the tactics of federal agents,## especially Democrats, what are they# going to do about ICE and what does## this mean for the chance of a potential shutdown?

LISA DESJARDINS: Those are intertwined questions.

And let's start with Democrats.

Many people# have been wondering.

Senator Sc.. told reporters what Democrats want to fund DHS.# There are three things that he listed today,## first, that they would end roving# raids, enforce code of conduct,## and hold agents accountable for harming# people, and also that there would be no## more masking, that they would require# bodycams and I.D.s on all officers.

But the problem is, the DHS funding bill,# of course, already passed the House,## along with all these other funding bills.

So to# change it now would cause that partial shutdown.

The White House says, if Democrats# demand a legislative fix, there will## be a shutdown.

And that's the point we're# at right now.

One difference, though, is,## people seem to want a solution, but, honestly,# they're just far apart on how to get there.

AMNA NAWAZ: So let's leave Washington# for just a moment and talk about this## climate of political violence I know# you spend a lot of time covering.

Another attack on a member of Congress.

This time,## it was Democrat Ilhan Omar last# night.

Bring us up to speed.

LISA DESJARDINS: Viewers may know# Omar represents Minneapolis.

She## herself is a Somali immigrant.

She also is# someone who has really received the most## vitriolic rhetoric from President# Trump while he's been in office.

She was speaking at a town hall in# Minneapolis last night when a man## ran toward her.

He squirted a syringe with# an unidentified liquid.

And a reporter said## there was a vinegar smell afterward.# Police have arrested a man who the## Associated Press said supported Trump# online and also called Democrats liars.

As for Omar, she kept going at that town hall.# And she posted some defiance on social media,## writing that: "This small agitator isn't going## to intimidate me from doing my# work.

I don't let bullies win."

But President Trump was asked about this.# He told ABC that he didn't watch the video,## but he called Omar a fraud.

He gaslit her,# saying she probably had herself sprayed.

Now, we raise that because that's# a message, even if it is a joke,## that is part of this climate of intimidation.

AMNA NAWAZ: Meanwhile, we know there's# some new information about the level of## threats against lawmakers.

What# should we understand about that?

LISA DESJARDINS: Capitol Police came out with some## eye-popping statistics over the number# of threats they .. Let's take a look at this.

It came out just# yesterday, last night.

Look at this.

These are## the number of threats that Capitol Police# have investigated in the last few years.

And you see that spike?

That is last# year, 14,000-plus threats against## members of Congress investigated.

Amna,# that's more than a 50 percent increase## from the year before.

So they do# have more funding for security.

But I can tell you personally# lawmakers are feeling this,## some of them having to move their# residence, taking careful plans## with family vacations.

This is a real# climate of political violence and threat.

AMNA NAWAZ: Lisa Desjardins, thank you, as always.

LISA DESJARDINS: You're welcome.

GEOFF BENNETT:## One of the country's highest-ranking Catholic# leaders and a top ally of Pope Leo is sharply## criticizing the Trump administration's immigration# enforcement, calling ICE a lawless organization.

During an interfaith service this week,# Cardinal Joseph Tobin, the head of the## Archdiocese of Newark, urged members of the# church to pressure lawmakers to block funding## for ICE.

His remarks come after the deaths of# Alex Pretti and Renee Nicole Good, and after## the detention of Liam Conejo Ramos, a 5-year-old# boy who was taken into custody by federal agents## after arriving home from preschool and sent with# his father to a family detention center in Texas.

For more now, we're joined# by Cardinal Joseph Tobin.

Thanks for being with us.

CARDINAL JOSEPH TOBIN, Archbishop# of Newark: Good ev.. GEOFF BENNETT: Before speaking out, I imagine# you must have weighe.. specific moral and theological convictions# ultimately compelled you to speak publicly?

CARDINAL JOSEPH TOBIN: I think the principle# motivator was a concern for the common good.

In the Catholic way of thinking and# approaching social-moral questions,## it's not simply the vindication of# competing rights, but it's rather the## preservation of the common good.

And so to# look at how the actions in Minneapolis or## anywhere else affect the common good, those are# people like whom you mentioned, the refugees,## people without legal status, as well# as the citizens of the United States.

GEOFF BENNETT: And you have# called not just for prayer,## but for political action, calling for# the defunding of ICE, as we mentioned.

What concrete changes do you envision?

CARDINAL JOSEPH TOBIN: Well, I think what# we want to do is -- as much as possible,## is use as a principal motivator# the human dignity of people.

And I think what I was calling for and I# still call for and will call for is the## recognition of the dignity of human beings,# no matter what their legal status may be.

GEOFF BENNETT: How do you reconcile this call to# push back against actions you believe are unjust## with the church's teaching and the Scripture's# teaching of respect for government authority?

CARDINAL JOSEPH TOBIN: Well,# I think that we pray for## our government officials.

And as# St.

Paul says in First Timothy,## we pray that in order that we can live tranquil# and decent lives and following our values.

And so we not only pray for ourselves, but# we pray for others, because we recognize,## in human dignity, the dignity of especially people# who don't -- do not necessarily look like us.

GEOFF BENNETT: In your message, you also# invoked the rise of authoritarianism.

Do## you believe the country is headed in that# direction or that we're presently there?

And,## if so, what are the biggest moral# choices facing Americans right now?

CARDINAL JOSEPH TOBIN: Well, I# think we have to ask ourselves## about the ongoing discord within our# society and ask what the roots are.

We also have to ask ourselves, as Americans,## where do we want our country to go?

What# do we want it to be, both here within our## national borders and in the community of# nations?

These are questions that require,## I think, respectful listening to each other# and also the freedom to express our opinions.

GEOFF BENNETT: Separate from the moral# question, there is the political question.## And you could argue that President Trump won# the Electoral College, he won the popular vote,## he won every battleground state running# on tougher immigration enforcement and## that lax enforcement under the Biden# administration caused real harms.

CARDINAL JOSEPH TOBIN: Well, I'd like# to make it clear that I'm not endorsing## anybody's political program or even# that -- the values of a movement.

Rather, I think what we need to do is see what's# happening in front of us and then recall what## I think is a fundamental value for# any of us with faith, without faith.

I## really hope that the recognition of the# human dignity of others is important.

And when we see that dignity# violated sometimes in a very## egregious and even fatal manner,# then we have to say something.

GEOFF BENNETT: As a faith leader looking at this# moment in American life marked by deep turmoil,## but also by people coming together in# unexpected ways, do you see signs of hope?

CARDINAL JOSEPH TOBIN: I really# believe that, without hope,## we're truly in a miserable# state.

There has to be hope.

And part of my hope is that, when people# recognize the humanity of the other,## they change.

On the contrary, if you want to do# inhuman things to people, what you strive to do## is take away their dignity, to call them names# and not recognize them for who they really are.

GEOFF BENNETT: Cardinal Joseph Tobin, thanks again# for your time this evening.

We appreciate it.

CARDINAL JOSEPH TOBIN: My# pleasure, Geoff.

God bless you.

AMNA NAWAZ: Two Democratic members of Congress# visited the ICE family detention center in Dilley,## Texas, today, where 5-year-old# Liam Ramos is being detained,## along with many other children and families.

Congressman Joaquin Castro posted this# image of his meeting with Liam and his## father and shared this update on his condition.

REP.

JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): His father# said that Liam has been very depressed## since he's been at Dilley, that he hasn't# been eating well.

I was concerned with,## you see how he appears in that photo# with his energy.

He seemed lethargic.

AMNA NAWAZ: Over the weekend, hundreds of# detainees inside the facility protested## their conditions and treatment in# this remarkable display of defiance.

Immigration attorney Eric Lee was at the# center that day, and I spoke with him earlier.

Eric Lee, welcome to the "News# Hour."

Thank you for joining us.

ERIC LEE, Immigration Attorney:# Thanks for having me.

Hi.

AMNA NAWAZ: So I want to ask you about that day# .. But I want to start with the news today,# because you shared earlier that ICE put## the entire Dilley facility on lockdown# today.

What does that mean when that kind## of a place goes on lockdown?

And what do# you know about why that went into place?

ERIC LEE: Well, it's because of the# demonstration that took place today in Dilley.

We also know that, last night, guards# burst into one of the women's dormitories,## ordered everybody out of the room, stopped# people who were in the middle of prayers,## and rummaged through everybody's# personal belongings to find any## evidence of signs or participation# in the planned protest for today.

So there's no question that this was a# significant attack on the First Amendment## rights of all of the people in this# facility.

What it's looked like today,## from what we have been hearing from many# detained families, is that people are not## allowed to leave their rooms.

They were# escorted to the lunch area for meals.

And so this is the reaction of the Trump# administration to individuals expressing## their free speech rights, both inside these# facilities and outside these facilities.

AMNA NAWAZ: So, this weekend -- I want to# get to a piece of video that you recorded,## because I understand you were at the facility# meeting with clients.

You saw firsthand## some of these images that we saw going viral,# getting a lot of media attention and headlines.

And you recorded this piece of video# on Saturday.

Just take a listen.

ERIC LEE: Can you hear that?

They're# shouting: "Let us out, let us out."

AMNA NAWAZ: Eric, tell us more about what you saw,## what you heard that day.

And what# prompted the protest in the first place?

ERIC LEE: Well, I was visiting a family that I# represent.

Their name is El Gamal.

There's six of## them.

There's a mother and her five children,# two 5-year-old twins who have spent almost## 20 percent of their lives at this facility,# a 9-year-old, a 16-year-old, an 18-year-old## who has since Saturday been separated from her# family and denied visitation rights as a result,## retribution for her decision to speak out# previously about conditions in this facility.

The protest, as I understand, was triggered by# the fact that people inside saw the size of the## general strike and the massive demonstration# that took place in Minneapolis on Friday,## and they were -- they wanted to join# this growing movement from below,## a movement of the American population# against the Trump administration's effort.

AMNA NAWAZ: You mentioned the El Gamal family# that you represent.

We should note their## father was convicted of domestic terrorism.

The# family says they knew nothing about that.

And,## as you mentioned, they have# now been detained for months.

Why are they being held?

Are they being charged## with something?

What's the# government's plan for them?

ERIC LEE: The government has detained this# family solely because of something that## somebody else did.

That offends every# basic democratic principle upon which## this country was founded 250 years ago this year.

The individual responsibility is required# for civil and other forms of incarceration## in this country.

This family, an# immigration judge has determined## that they did not know and that they could# not have known what their husband/father was## planning.

They have publicly denounced# the attack that took place in Boulder.

The Trump administration from the very beginning# has been punishing this family in a cruel and## sadistic way, 5-year-old children,# not because they did anything wrong,## but because of somebody to whom they were# related did.

And that is not how things## are supposed to work in this country.# That's how things work in police states,## where the regime punishes people# because of their associations.

And it's extremely concerning that this is being# done to this young family.

All they need is to## get out.

They have a supportive community# in Colorado ready to welcome them home.## An immigration judge denied# them bond last week because## the children and the mom lack sufficient# property and assets, among other things.

How does a 5-year-old have property?

He# made that decision about each individual## child.

That's what's happening in the American# immigration system.

That's what immigration## attorneys unfortunately see every day.

To the# American people, it's worse than you think.

AMNA NAWAZ: You shared online a photo drawn by# what I understand is the youngest child in the El## Gamal family.

You posted it online.

It shows the# family behind bars and the caption: "Let us go."

So, from your perspective, Eric, if immigration# judges are denying bond here, if this is the## system as it's working right now, what's the# recourse for a family like this or others?

ERIC LEE: I think, in the medium and long# term and actually even in the short term,## it's the development of this mass movement of## the population of this country# standing up, stepping forward.

Change and reform isn't possible within# the framework of the present political## establishment.

Press conferences by politicians# are great, but they go away after the midterms,## things stay the same.

Dilley was founded by# Obama and kept opened by Biden for three years.

What's required is this mass movement# from below which we're beginning to see## in this country.

That has to continue# to find independent expression.

And I## think that the fact that these children# are risking everything -- they could be## separated from their families.

They could be# deported in retribution for participating.

If they're standing up and speaking out, then that## is a message to the population# of the country and the world.

AMNA NAWAZ: Immigration attorney# Eric Lee joining us tonight.

Eric, thank you for your time.

We appreciate it.

ERIC LEE: Thank you.

GEOFF BENNETT: As our country observes the 250th# anniversary of the Declaration of Independence## this year, Judy Woodruff is kicking off a new# chapter in her series America at a Crossroads.

AMNA NAWAZ: This year, she will explore# what it means to be an American,## how that idea has evolved since the nation's# founding, and where we might be headed.

She begins by looking at how closely# our identity as Americans hews to the## template created by war hero and# first President George Washington.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY, Presidential Historian:# We refer to this as our smoking gun letter,## because you can start to see him# thinking about the fact that,## because he's an American, he's# actually a second-class citizen.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Inside a temperature-controlled# vault, historian Lindsay Chervinsky is showing me## a letter written by a then 25-year-old commander# of the Virginia regiment, George Washington.

He'd been fighting alongside the British# during the French and Indian War and was## angry at the lack of royal commissions# for him and his fellow Virginia officers.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: When you think about what it# means to be a full-fledged citizen, we think about## economic participation, political participation,# but also can you advance on your own merits?

And he has this realization early that# he's not going to in the British system.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Nearly two decades before the# American Revolution, Washington foreshadowed## the collision with Britain that would lead# to the creation of the United States and our## identity as Americans, a question that, 250# years later, many continue to wrestle with.

EMILY CHAFFIN, Mesa, Arizona: Being an American## means being able to pursue life# liberty and happiness unimpeded.

RICHARD WATKINS, Memphis, Tennessee:# Believing in those ideals that were set up## at the founding of our nation,# that's what being an American is.

JUDY WOODRUFF: We asked our viewers about being an## American and the responsibilities# that come with that identity.

JEN THISSEN, St.

Paul, Minnesota: In# order to be a citizen, that is an active## job description.

You need to learn.

You need# to understand.

And you need to participate.

KATHLEEN SINCLAIR CANNULI, San Jose, California:# To live by who got elected, all the various## viewpoints that people have, you don't have to# embrace them, but you have to live with them.

IAIN BURNETT, Raleigh, North Carolina:# We are a nation of immigrants.

And## except for those that are fully# Native American, at some point,## in the last 15 generations,# our ancestors immigrated here.

TONYA BAXTER, Grapevine, Texas: We're the# beacon on the hill.

Everybody wants to come## here.

Everybody has opportunity, no matter who# you are.

Come, do your best, and you can succeed.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: There was never one answer# to the question of, what is an American?

JUDY WOODRUFF: Chervinsky is the# executive director of the George## Washington Presidential Library and the# author of two books on the founding fathers,## including "The Cabinet: George Washington# and the Creation of an American Institution."

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: They didn't necessarily# agree amongst themselves as to what was## the ideal American, what was the# right culture, the right religion,## the right economy, who belonged in that equation.

And from the founding, of course,# most people of color were excluded,## most women were excluded, Native Americans# were seen as sort of a separate entity.

And## then over the course of American history,# this has evolved and changed.

So it should## give comfort to people that we# have never had a clear answer.

JUDY WOODRUFF: After the# Revolutionary War was over,## Washington returned here to# his estate at Mount Vernon.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: He had# about 8,000 acres when he died.

JUDY WOODRUFF: The nascent nation was struggling# under the weak Articles of Confederation.

And in## 1787, Washington became a delegate to the# Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia.

The view that emerged was that this country,## rather than 13 squabbling colonies,# needed a strong central government.## Why did George Washington come to# believe that was the right answer?

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: Well, they believed that# they needed a strong central government,## but they also believed that they needed# what they called an energetic executive.## Washington and many of the other military# officers understood how inept Congress was,## because it had failed to raise money for the army.

And so they really believed in a# stronger national government.

They## were sort of early nationalists# in a true sense of the word.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Washington supported ratification# of the new Constitution that created branches## of government, Congress in Article I and# an executive or president in Article II.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: Everyone knew that, if this# worked, he was going to be the first president.

JUDY WOODRUFF: No dissension?

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: No dissension.. And so when we look at Article II, it's very# short, especially compared to Article I. And## I think and I think a lot of historians# believe that a lot of the silence there is## because they just figured he would figure# it out once in office, and they trusted## him to establish precedents and norms that# would be good for the future of the nation.

JUDY WOODRUFF: As president, Washington was# committed to civilian control of the military,## the peaceful transition of power, and the# idea that everyone is held to the same laws.

But as a wealthy landowner in Virginia, Washington# also embodied the contradictions at the heart of## our founding documents, including the# idea that all men are created equal,## while codifying enslaved people as unequal,# including the more than 300 people enslaved## by George and Martha Washington at Mount Vernon# at the time of George Washington's death in 1799.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: They continued to sort of buy# and sell without thinking about the implications## for the people that they were buying and# selling until the revolution.

And then,## in the record, we can see a pretty distinct# shift in how Washington thinks about slavery.

First, he is interacting with free Black# communities in places like Philadelphia## and Baltimore and Boston.

He was also seeing# different types of agricultural production.## He also was interacting with ardent abolitionists,## including the Marquis De Lafayette, who was# very outspoken about his distaste for slavery.

But, lastly and I think most# importantly, by the end of the war,## some estimates suggest that about 30# percent of the Continental Army was Black.

JUDY WOODRUFF: In his will, Washington# stated that the people on his estate## that he controlled would be# free upon his wife's death.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: There's a lot that# he didn't do.

He didn't speak out against## slavery as president.

He did continue to# track down people who had run away.

And it## is in no way an excuse or a justification for# all of the people that he did hold in bondage.

But he knew his will was# going to be a public document,## and he knew it was going to be a major statement.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Chervinsky sees# Washington's evolution on slavery## as a reminder that the founding# fathers expected things to change.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: They didn't think what they# were creating was perfect.

They genuinely believed## that they were trying to create something# that was just a little bit better than## what they had had before.

They had all made# compromises to try and ensure ratification.

And they understood that there were problems they# were sweeping under the rug.

They could not figure## out how to solve the issue of slavery.# They also knew that there were problems## they couldn't possibly foresee because they# didn't have the ability to predict the future.

And I think what they hoped was, even if# the Constitution didn't survive forever,## that the republic would survive because# each generation was willing to embrace## that challenge to try and make the# nation just a little bit better.

VERONICA WILLIAMS, Paris, Tennessee:# We as Americans have found our way to## pull up our bootstraps in times of# dire need and in times of stress.

EMILY CHAFFIN: I believe the civil# rights movement was an overall success,## right.

Women's suffrage was# a success.

We can vote now.## We have basic rights.

I think that# we still have a lot of work to do.

AKSHAY SINGH, Tukwila, Washington: I# think the Congress should be expanded,## the House of Representatives should# be expanded to represent more people.

RICHARD WATKINS: We have really given up on filing# amendments to make our system more adaptable to## where the world is going, the way society is# going, particularly now in the 21st century.

ELENA SOTELO MCCRARY, San Ramon, California: I'm# still sad about the Equal Rights Amendment because## that's simple, two-paragraph language.

If that# had been adopted, it would have covered everybody.

JEN THISSEN: Thank you for your service, founding# fathers.

Great job, but now it's time to evolve.

JUDY WOODRUFF: Modern polling tells us we# are extremely divided along partisan lines,## and while feelings of pride in being# an American remain relatively high,## they have fallen significantly from# almost unanimous levels in the mid-'80s,## and those declines in the last decade have# mostly been among Democrats and independents.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: So this is Washington's# study.

This was his most private space when## he was here at Mount Vernon.

It was where he# did a lot of his thinking about the presidency,## where he reflected on things# like his farewell address.

JUDY WOODRUFF: In 1796, George Washington# published a farewell address that first## and foremost announced that he would# not seek a third term as president.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: He believed it was# essential that that first transition## happen while he was alive and happen in an# intentional way, so it would be less chaotic,## but also so that he was establishing a# precedent that presidents didn't serve for life.

JUDY WOODRUFF: The address also provided# warnings to his fellow Americans for## the future, cautioning against foreign# entanglements, regionalism, and partisanship.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: At this point, Washington# wasn't actually opposed to political organizing.## He was saying, don't allow political# parties to break the bonds of citizenship.

JUDY WOODRUFF: It seems so prescient today... LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: It's unbelievably prescient.

JUDY WOODRUFF: ... as we are so divided.

LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: Yes.

JUDY WOODRUFF: A.. LINDSAY CHERVINSKY: He did.

Our divisions and our partisan rancor have# been somet.. again over the course of the last 250 years.# And so he was certainly living it in the 1790s.## And I don't know that he would have been terribly# surprised that it came up again and again, but I## do think that he would hope we could find a way# to put that American identity above the others.

It was a revolutionary thing to# do to form a nation based on an## idea.

Because it has survived and maybe we# have become a little bit jaded about it... JUDY WOODRUFF: Yes.

LINDSAY CHERVINS.. JUDY WOODRUFF: This visit to Mount Vernon,# reflecting on George Washington's influence.. country to be, is just the start of our plan for# a yearlong inquiry as America observes its 250th.

We will be sitting down with more# people from across the country to## ask how they see their role as Americans,# especially at this deeply divided moment.## And we will be looking for lessons from history# to how we begin to reach that more perfect union.

For the "PBS News Hour," I'm Judy# Woodruff in Mount Vernon, Virginia.

AMNA NAWAZ: Forty years ago today, the Challenger# space shuttle exploded on live television just 73## seconds after liftoff.

All seven astronauts# aboard died, including Christa McAuliffe,## the first teacher and ordinary citizen to fly# in space, plunging the nation into mourning.

GEOFF BENNETT: I spoke with# our science correspondent,## Miles O'Brien, who has covered# the space program for decades,## about that moment and how it changed the# country for our video podcast "Settle In."

Here's some of that conversation.

Why was this particular launch -- why did it## capture the public's imagination in# a way that previous launches hadn't?

MILES O'BRIEN: It was all# about the teacher, Geoff,## Christa McAuliffe, elementary school# teacher from Concord, New Hampshire,## who had participated in a nationwide contest# to become the first teacher in space.

She was a fabulous, interesting character# and won the rights to fly on the shuttle as## the shuttle program turned toward allowing# civilians to fly in space.

And they were## leaning toward trying to show the world that# the space shuttle system was routine and could## get people to space, everyday people to# space, in a relatively inexpensive way.

1986, they had 15 flights on the manifest, way,## way beyond anything it had attempted in the# past.

It was going to launch spy satellites,## commercial satellites, scientific missions.# And they were really kind of hell-bent to## prove that this system was reliable enough# for a teacher to fly and give lessons.

And so the world was fixated on that after 24# previous flights.

The first flight, of course,## in 1981 got a lot of attention.

Then many of the# flights fell off the front page of the newspapers,## but this one really captured# hearts and minds and pointedly,## sadly, was watched by hundreds of thousands of# schoolkids in their classrooms that morning.

GEOFF BENNETT: You happened to be there that# day.

Set the scene for us.

What was it like?

MILES O'BRIEN: Well, I wasn't quite# there.

I was -- but I was close enough.

You have to remember this was a record cold snap# in Florida, a 100-year record.

I was a 26-year-old## green reporter working in local news in Tampa,# Florida.

And I had spent the entire night in a## citrus grove doing live reports with a grower who# was worried about losing his crops because of the## bitter cold.

It was down in the teens, and, in# Florida, that's something that people remember.

And after a full night of work, I went to# sleep and was awakened by the assignment## editor at my station, saying: "The shuttle has# exploded."

And I couldn't even process that.

And I went outside in my house -- at my# house in Tampa, and I looked up in this## impossibly Bluesky, and I could see the# remnants of the contrail of Challenger,## and it was like a big, giant Y in# the sky.

This is 150 miles away,## and it just kind of hung there like# a pall over the state and the city.

And so I got busy doing the local news assignment,## but it's hard to overstate how much of a shock# this was to the country.

Up until that time,## NASA, despite the fact that it had a terrible# accident in 1967, the Apollo 1 accident, where## three crew members were incinerated on a launchpad# during a test, but that was out of public view.

This was something everyone saw instantly.

It was# broadcast live on CNN.And the world watched it,## and children were connected to it.

And there was# a profound sense of loss of innocence, I think,## for NASA, which at that point really,# in the public's mind, could do no wrong.

GEOFF BENNETT: A loss of innocence for NASA.

I mean, did it feel like the nation and the world## in mourning in real time?

What# was the immediate aftermath like?

MILES O'BRIEN: Yes, it was a pall.

And Ronald Reagan was supposed to deliver his# State of the Union address tha.. for a time, he thought -- they thought they would# press on and actually give that address, but,## eventually, they canceled the State of the Union.

And, instead, he gave an Oval Office speech## that was -- it was authored by his# famous speechwriter Peggy Noonan.

RONALD REAGAN, Former President of the# United States: The crew of the space## shuttle Challenger honored us with the# mann.. We will never forget them, nor the last time# we saw them this morning, as they prepared for## their journey and waved goodbye, and slipped the# surly bonds of Earth to touch the face of God.

MILES O'BRIEN: It was a collective## tragedy that I think at that point# only rivaled the assassination of JFK.

GEOFF BENNETT: And you can find that# full conversation and all episodes of## "Settle In" from PBS News on our YouTube# page and wherever you get your podcasts.

And there's a lot more online, including a# breakdown of an ongoing trial where social## media giants are being accused# of harming minors by making their## platforms addictive.

That's at PBS.org/NewsHour.

AMNA NAWAZ: And that is the "News# Hour" for tonight.

I'm Amna Nawaz.

GEOFF BENNETT: And I'm Geoff Bennett.

For all of us here at the "News Ho..