campaign survive.

But we're waiting for an answer to a third question.

What is going on with Senator Mitch McConnell?

All this and more next.

This is Washington Week with the Atlantic.

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Thank you once again from the David M. Rubenstein studio at Weta in Washington, editor-inchief of The Atlantic and moderator, Jeffrey Goldberg.

Good evening and welcome to Washington Week.

This is very much an I told you so kind of week for many people in domestic and international politics.

On the domestic side, a lot of people have been telling the Democratic Party, maybe you shouldn't pin your Senate hopes on a guy with a Nazi tattoo.

It wasn't the Nazi tattoo that did in Graham Platner, of course.

It was a rape allegation that caused the left wing of the party to finally give up on their beloved puditive oyster men.

The big question for Democrats now is how to salvage Maine, which they pretty much have to win in order to take control of the Senate.

It's looking to be a real self-inflicted wound for the party.

On the international front, the I told you so are coming from people who had no faith in either the Iranian regime's desire to shed its deeply embedded extremism or in the Trump administration's ability to negotiate a complex and durable deal.

a deal that might cause American voters, among others, to think that maybe this war was actually worth it.

Joining me tonight to discuss all of this and more, Peter Baker, the chief White House correspondent at the New York Times.

Leanne Caldwell is the chief Washington correspondent at Puck.

Susan Glasser is a staff writer at the New Yorker.

And Adam Harris is a staff writer and the host of Radio Atlantic.

Welcome all of you.

Adam, I'll start with you.

I guess the Platner story in Maine is about the importance of vetting among other things.

Uh I mean the Democrats are really in a hole here because of what happened.

They are right and they knew kind of going into this race kind of over the last several months that they needed to flip at least four seats, right?

And in Maine, Michigan, Ohio, Alaska, right?

These were the seats that they were sort of looking at as the places where Maine almost like number one.

Maine almost number one, right?

Um, but I think that a part of this it comes out of them overarning or or sort of learning the wrong lesson from 2020 and 2024.

Sort of looking for the prototypical candidate who can win back um, you know, the the sort of isolated white male voters that they may have thought that they lost to to President Trump as as as opposed to sort of understanding a policy preference that voters might be thinking of, a dissatisfaction with an establishment that they might be thinking of as opposed to an an identity um, that they thought that the voters might be interested in.

Remember the Brady Bunch episode when they made Greg a rock star because he fit the suit.

I actually don't because you're younger than I am.

Is that what you're trying to imply?

You're successfully implying it.

But that's what I that's what came to mind for me.

Um Lean, how did this how did this happen?

Like h how do you go from a guy no one's ever heard of to becoming the the standard bearer for what Adam is talking about this the white working class?

We're going to get him back.

um to this disaster.

So um obviously Graham Platner was found by these political operatives um young political operatives who did very little vetting um and he was connected with an agency that uh that focuses on these progressive candidates.

But how he gained so much support is he is charismatic.

um he is was a good messenger and he had the message that the progressive left, the Bernie Sanders wing of the party is really looking for.

It's anti-corporate, anti-APAC, there's uh uh calling out a genocide in Gaza, um Medicare for all, all of these uh economic issues that were really important to this faction of the Democratic Party that really motivated um voters in Maine.

Right.

But well, it's very interesting to look to to sort of do a postmortem of the process.

But let's talk about what happens in the next few days as well because Maine, the Democrats in Maine have to get a candidate to run against a very formidable person.

Yeah.

So, so what are they going to do to to to figure out how to get this going again?

Yeah.

So, the main Democratic party is um trying to figure out a process in a very quick amount of time.

They have to have a process by June 27th or July.

been a process before for this because he's been the he is the nominee.

He was the nominee.

Friday evening he finally officially withdrew.

Um so there are candidates who are putting their names forward.

They have to get 500 signatures to be officially confirmed or on the ballot and then everyone's trying to figure out what this process is.

They are still working on it.

But what they don't want is they don't want the party.

They don't want their thumbs on the scale by the national democratic party.

They don't want to be accused like they are look that they're they are uh trying to skirt or or place someone that they want in the process.

They are took a lot of lessons from the Kla Harris Joe Biden situation two years ago.

So they're trying to make it look as open and transparent and inclusive for main Democrats as possible.

Uh but I will say there's this um there's this internal battle still of what this candidate is going to look like.

some of the progressives are already getting behind people.

There's the more centrist faction of the party who says we need someone with a pulse who can unite the party.

Um and so, you know, this is just the beginning of a very complicated way to try to beat the most battle tested Republican senator on the map right now.

Right, Peter?

I I want you to watch Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders talk about uh Platner before the rape allegation surfaced.

And I said to myself, that's my kind of man because that is a man who not only has the values but a man who believes in accountability.

The guy that I saw up on the stage in Portland, M rather a brilliant guy.

I mean a really a strong fighter for the working class, very articulate, very smart.

And I think as a nation, especially given the fact that we have a president who is convicted of 34 felonies, uh maybe we have to do a little bit of forgiveness.

So going at Adam's point, is this is this desire on the part of the Democrats for the perfect archetype?

Is that hurting the party rather than looking for individuals who might make good senators and who could win their states?

this hunt for this archetype.

Is that what's Yeah, it's a hunt for an archetype.

And I think there's a willingness to suspend disbelief about people from your own party that you wouldn't have for people in the other party, right?

In other words, they would never have accepted a Republican candidate who had a Nazi tattoo.

They would have said, "That's outrageous.

How could the Republicans nominate somebody like that?"

But if it's our guy, well, let's talk about redemption.

Let's talk about somebody who has overcome his past to uh speak out for the values that we uh endorse.

And I think that, you know, it's a it's a sign of where politics is today, right?

We we are willing to accept all kinds of things on our side uh because we don't like the other side so much.

And where do you draw that line?

And then in this case, they were willing to take a guy who had no history uh in in elective politics that they could then, you know, vet.

And if you want to have an outsider, you're going to end up taking a chance.

There's a reason why insiders uh have run again and again is because they have for the most part had some vetting at least.

But this is an anti-inssider year.

You want to run against the insiders.

That's the that's the risk.

I have to say I'm a little bit shocked that you're suggesting that tribalized hyperartisanship makes you stupid.

Um but your word, but I think it certainly changes your your your viewpoint.

Right.

Right.

And I also right there is there's this world, right, where we should be thinking of forgiveness in politics.

Right.

This isn't just platiner, right?

This is any generic candidate, right?

People should be able to um have things in their past that it's like I've grown from that.

Um but our colleague Liz Brunick wrote um about a month ago about the idea that he was also obfuscating.

He wasn't being completely upfront at the beginning about all of the things that would have shown up.

Right?

It's it goes to the idea of vetting.

Be clear though, I'm not sure that most Americans would agree with the idea that we should forgive someone who's been credibly accused of raping someone that maybe in their personal life or maybe that, you know, they should have a job.

But do you really want someone like that in the Senate, even if they say, "Well, gee, you know, I had a really tough past."

The Democrats had a very stringent attitude about Brett Kavanaaugh for something much well and in fact of course Brett Kavanaaugh is the main issue that Democrats had hoped to talk about when it comes to defeating Susan Collins.

So, you know, first of all, right, if you're explaining, you're losing.

And uh I haven't heard the word Susan Collins very much at all this week.

It was really notable if you looked at Graham Platner's very combative uh video announcing very reluctantly that he was pulling out of the race.

He never mentioned Susan Collins.

He never mentioned uh you know the need for his party to come together or you know the goals that he said he was professing.

It was a very I thought it was a very angry narcissistic performance.

And again it points to this idea and this question I think for Democrats as well as Republicans.

Is it the combative style of politics that Democrats now want uh in their candidates or is it about an ideological shift?

And I think you know who who didn't have a hangover this week in many ways or a reminder of uh Democrats with Joe Biden and Kla Harris in a last minute replacement of a candidate that doesn't tend to work out all that well.

The New York Times did a good job of pulling up all of the Senate races in the last 30 years where this has happened.

It's very unusual.

Only nine times, and by the way, only twice did the replacement candidate win.

Right.

Right.

I I going back to what Adam was saying, I I think that uh I think that the rape allegation I shouldn't say that it's across the across the board.

it voids out uh a candidate's efficacy because we know some examples obviously some pretty large examples but I think Adam was talking more about the Nazi tattoo which by the way and we've talked about this on the show in last month or two I I was surprised that the Nazi tattoo by in and of itself wasn't enough wasn't and Peter's exactly right if a Republican candidate even a very moderate Republican candidate is Susan Collins so it's hard to picture Susan Collins with any tattoo um a moderate Republican who had a Nazi tattoo, the Democrats would have come down like a ton of bricks obviously on them.

And yet our politic is such that on the same day that Graham Platner uh was accused of this uh Donald Trump uh was ordered to pay $5 million to Eugene Carol finally resolving her lawsuit, her successful lawsuit accusing him of sexual abuse.

He was found liable by a court of law for having sexually abused Eugene Carolo and he's president of the United States.

Well, for reasons that will take up books, we we understand generally that there's huge carveouts in our culture for Donald Trump's behavior, Access Hollywood, going back to that and his party.

I mean, you know, look at Ken Paxton and, you know, where Republicans have not abandoned him.

I didn't see a big uh resumed call this week for him to drop out of the race uh despite the many many disturbing allegations against him.

Now, the flip side is, and I'm not usually, as you know, Jeff, the person who's like, "Oh, let's be all uh optimistic and upbeat here."

But uh from the point of view of Democrats, this was a pretty divisive, damaging, I told you so week.

However, uh it did come before this July 13th deadline for them to get a new candidate who might have a better chance to win.

And I think if you look at the map overall of the Senate to your point, uh, you know, the fact that it's even in play is a remarkable reminder of what we haven't been talking about, which is that Donald Trump has sunk to alarming low levels uh, with the public.

There's little sign of him recovering.

And as a result of that, as well as actually some strong Democratic candidates in places like North Carolina or Ohio or Alaska that might not have otherwise been in play, you're looking at that.

You're seeing huge turnout from Democrats in the primary.

Well, let's let's talk about what what Susan's referring to.

The national picture for the four seats, they need to pick up a four.

Are they are they going to get it?

Um well, actually, Washington Democrats think that now that Graham Platner is out of the race, they actually think they have a better chance of beating Susan Coll.

Is that what they think or is that what they say?

Well, I they were looking at polling um leading up the New York Times Sienna poll showed that Platner's support was starting to soften and that was before these rape allegations came out.

It was after other allegations.

Um his fundraising had almost completely dried up.

His big donors were not giving money to him and so there was a lot of concerns about the viability of Graham Platner before this story even was released.

And so they are thrilled that this is happening before this deadline so that they at least have an opportunity to try to get someone on the ballot to beat Susan Collins.

Now, um, how it plays out, how the Democratic party shuffles money around and how they spend money is still TBD.

I'm told by sources that they expect to still spend in Maine, which they had announced earlier this week that if Platner was still on the ballot that they were not going to.

Um, and so they expect with someone who is a relatively normal Democrat that it will once again be in play again.

But this is a critical a critical seat for them.

This is the bluest seat of all the ones that they have to pick up in order to win back the Senate.

And so uh we'll see.

I will just about the so many Democrats who were excusing so many things of Graham Platner.

There was this really this internal battle that was happening with the in the party that the progressive left again, they were excusing all of this because this was part of their plan and so necessary for them to prove to the Democratic party that they could win with their policies, with their people, with their with their priorities in a in a barely blue state that give them legitimacy.

also heading into other Senate races and into 2028.

And so that's a big reason why so many Democrats on the left were excusing this because Platner was really their big hope of of of of the direct of what the direction of the party could be.

Adam, correct me if I'm wrong, but in the other states that are possibly in play, the the Democratic candidates are definitely more to the center.

Maybe.

Well, in Michigan, we have to wait.

Michigan.

Yeah, Michigan is is still a wait and see.

But yes, they are they are more to the center.

I think to the but to Leanne's point, right, this was an opportunity for Democrats to say or the the progressive Democrats to say, look at this is our candidate.

He he has the profile of someone who might um might draw in moderate voters, might draw in voters who actually don't pay attention that often, but they they might um understand identity politics a little bit better or as they see an an oyster, right, who is who is um you know, he he works with his hands and that's the sort of image that he It wasn't actually that much scandal involving this guy, but but it's like it was a hobby oyster man, but the like the little halftruths, right, that that they could sort of get away with that that an average viewer wouldn't see, But us, you know, kind of paying attention to it pretty often do um because we pay so much attention to oyster farming here at Washington Weekly generally.

But it did seem that he had united a sort of base there in Maine, right?

Um so the Democratic base was energized around his policy even if they weren't energized around his person.

And so it will be interesting seeing going forward if any any of the sort of candidates will surface can energize that base as well as drawing in some it's going to be a big theme into the into the fall.

Um, Peter, I want to move to um, uh, a stickier subject even than Maine.

Uh, Iran.

The Iranians don't seem to be particularly interested in seeding control of the straight of Hermuz.

Donald Trump is not particularly interested in the historic landmark memorandum of understanding that was signed and almost immediately forgotten.

Uh, it looks a lot like we're just in perpetual war with Iran.

Yeah.

Is that fair to say?

Yeah.

No, I think it's exactly right.

It turns out to be a memorandum of misunderstanding.

they didn't didn't actually agree on what they actually agreed on.

Uh and this wasn't even the hard part, right?

This was just the preliminary thing in which we say we stop shooting at each other so then we can talk about the things that are really hard.

We couldn't even get through that.

So, it does suggest that we're not going to see a decisive uh agreement of any sort in the near term if we can't even get the the the short-term thing going.

And clearly, President Trump doesn't seem eager to relaunch the full-scale war that he had at the very beginning.

That's not going to help his Republican candidates in Maine or anywhere else.

So, we're in this kind of middle ground, right?

This kind of stasis where a little bit of war and a little bit of peace, a little bit of diplomacy and and and no actual resolution.

And I'm not sure politically how that plays um in the midterms, but that's on the uh factor at play both in terms of how the White House looks at it and how the Iranians look at it because they know our clock just like we do, right?

But I wonder if if in terms of the midterms, I wonder if this is now just kind of perpetual background noise in a kind of way.

It's just like there's always going to be this Iran problem.

Gas prices are going to be elevated.

Beef is going to cost a lot.

Am I am I wrong in saying that?

Is this a is this a a real threat if it continues this way to the Republicans in in November?

Yeah, I mean, Jeeoff, I was also very struck this week that um we've become so ignored.

It seemed to me that it was really not treated as such a big deal.

Uh remember that you know for the previous 15 years you know just the mere thought of the United States striking Iran even in a single uh bout of air strikes was considered to be you know one of the major uh debates that engaged foreign policy over and over again.

And yet Donald Trump just sort of casually now goes back to war and uh the world just sort of shrugs its shoulders to a certain extent.

And I I was really struck by that that Trump does this thing where he gets people accustomed to the previously unthinkable with remarkable speed.

So he may be baking that into our politics, understanding that uh an achievable deal is not with insight and so getting people used to the idea that this is going to continue.

I think it represents a continued misreading on the part of the administration.

They don't seem to have had a very good uh understanding of the dynamics with their Iranian interlocators.

They they seem to have gotten it wrong over and over again about what they were even talking about.

What could Trump or the Iranians do to advertently or inadvertently escalate this out of control?

I I mean I think there's any number of scenarios which is exactly why previous American administrations, Democrats and Republicans didn't go down this route of opening up an open-ended conflict with Iran because there are so many possibilities and and that was even before the age of drone warfare.

You've seen America's partners in the Gulf extremely and increasingly unhappy both because of the economic damage to their uh oil and energy businesses, also civilian populations.

There's the possibility of terrorism.

Uh, you know, President Trump flew over to uh Europe on his new Air Force One gifted to him by Gutar had to change planes in the middle of the trip to go back to the old Air Force One.

Why?

It appears from very credible reporting that was because it didn't the new Air Force One didn't have enough security precautions for a president, air defenses, anti-missile.

Exactly.

And the Iranians have targeted Donald Trump as well as other senior current and former American officials.

uh for credible assassination plots.

So, it's a very volatile environment in which we can all imagine any number of things going wrong and leading to a much more serious and genuine uh full-scale war as opposed to the Trumpian kind of on again offagain war.

By the way, you're you're exactly right about something.

We've already baked into the conversation the fact that Air Force One is a gift of the royal family of cutter, right?

Who?

Imagine if if that if if President Obama, President Biden, President Bush had taken a gift from an oil em a non-democratic oil emirate essentially.

It would have been the scandal to end all scandals, but here we are just talking about it like it's it's normal.

Something else that's not particularly normal is is that at the NATO summit, um the Turkish president gave all of the uh assembled uh leaders uh a gift of a revolver.

And we don't know if President Trump has taken the revolver back to Mara Lago, do we?

No.

But he loves President Erdogan.

He loves Erdogan.

One of his very very favorite strong men.

I I want to have that discussion.

It's a very interesting discussion.

I want to have that discussion in another show about the the these new Middle Eastern dynamics.

I do want to ask you one question very quickly, Peter, about NATO.

It seemed like it went better than it usually goes when when President Trump interacts with NATO.

Fair.

This is yeah, this is the you're beating your head against the brick wall and then you stop.

It doesn't feel so bad.

NATO summit, right?

It didn't explode.

It wasn't a disaster.

So, hey, it's a success, right?

At the end of the day, of course, they're still the president of United States talking about going after Greenland, in other words, the territory of a NATO ally and so forth.

But yes, it could have been worse and so they'll take that.

Right.

Leanne, question about Mitch McConnell.

Um, we don't really know how bad shape he's in.

His office isn't saying.

We've seen this again and again on Capitol Hill where people don't public officials don't tell the public what's going on.

Can you can you shed any light on this?

Yeah.

And there's really no accountability for it.

Um there's nothing they can do.

Mitch McConnell is not running for reelection.

Uh but the reality is is we don't know the state of his condition.

Um there's been online conspiracy theories that he's dead or that he's brain dead.

Um he had some phone calls this week with the two leaders uh John Thun and John Braso and a former aid of his.

You know before all of this started coming out um it was about 3 weeks ago.

I do know that John Baraso talked to him on the phone before there was all the conspiracy theories.

So I don't think he's brain dead but um his office doesn't seem to be changing their policy of giving no information.

Right.

Adam, this is a last word to you.

This doesn't seem like a great way to build trust in transparent democratic processes.

No.

And people flatly, no.

Right.

People have long sort of distrusted that the information they're getting from Congress is um is is true that their representatives are telling them the truth.

And if you're not willing to just sort of be upfront, I think if there is a unifying theme of this whole thing, it's be upfront and and and have some character about it.

Um and but we've seen recently Tom Keane um was gone with the depression for for a long time.

um Senator Mitch McConnell.

Um it it is a there is a a tendency to hide um as opposed to just being upfront with the American people.

Well, I'm going to be upfront about it and say that we're out of time, unfortunately.

Uh it was a really interesting conversation.

We'll be talking about these issues again next week, but we're going to have to leave it there.

I want to thank our guests for joining me.

I want to thank you at home for watching us.

For more on Senator Mitch McConnell's absence from Congress, please visit theatlantic.com.

I'm Jeffrey Goldberg.

Good night from Washington.

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