- [Announcer] Tonight on Showcase With Barbara Kellar, executive director of the African-American Cultural Heritage Action Fund, Brent Leggs, and community leader, Peg Valentine.

Stay tuned, Showcase starts right now.

(bright instrumental music) (lively violin music) - Hi, I'm Barbara Kellar, and we have today a really interesting program, is something I think everybody is interested in and wants to know more about, and it's preservation, national preservation, local preservation.

And Peg Valentine, who is one of the leading people in the city to promote this is here and Brent Leggs, who is the authority.

But Peg, tell us a little bit about your group and what you do.

- Yeah, the Cincinnati Preservation Association is the leader in Cincinnati, along with all of the organizations with whom we collaborate.

It fosters the relationships in order to bring to life various aspects of the city needing to enhance what we know about ourselves and what we know about the community.

A community is much stronger when it knows its history and it knows the history of all the people.

And some of our histories have been lost.

Mr. Leggs is running a group that is going to bring light on some of the lost locations and histories of people in Cincinnati.

And we have a rich, rich history of African-American locations, of African-American life in Cincinnati.

And we have been studying that, Cincinnati Preservation Association, for a couple of years now.

We have identified the locations that are very important to informing us about our history.

And Mr. Legs is the national identity of identifying these and then helping the cities and areas to preserve them.

Not just the buildings.

It's not about preserving the buildings necessarily, it's about place and what people understand about place.

And with the Cincinnati Preservation fall forum, Mr. Leggs is our current speaker today.

And he is in a long line of interviewees that we've had that inform about place and how important place is and understanding the community and the richness of it, the depth of it.

- Yeah.

Brent, tell us just a little bit about your background.

It's so lengthy.

It was page after page.

I mean, oh my gosh, this guy must be 90 or so.

But clearly you're not.

So tell us your titles and what exactly your focus is.

And you live in Washington?

- I do, I live in Washington D.C. That's where I'm based.

- Okay.

Tell us a little bit about your background.

- So my academic background, I have an undergrad in marketing, MBA, and also a grad degree in Historic Preservation from the University of Kentucky.

I currently-- - Close to home.

- And close to home, I'm from Paducah, Kentucky.

- I know Paducah, yeah.

- Yeah, Kentucky native.

Currently I'm the executive director of the African American Cultural Heritage Action Fund at the National Trust for Historic Preservation.

And then my side job in academia, I'm an associate professor and senior advisor at the Weitzman School of Design at the University of Pennsylvania.

- Wow.

Okay, so in your spare time, well, you're here to give the lecture for Peg's group, but tell us about some of the projects you've worked on.

- I have had the good fortune of having a national purview and some of the projects that are beloved to me includes protecting in perpetuity the home of Madam C.J.

Walker.

- I know who she is.

She was a makeup skin person.

Yeah, tell them a little bit about her.

She was the first and most successful at her time.

- Yeah, she was.

Madam C.J.

Walker is America's first self-made female millionaire.

- [Peg] Millionaire.

- And she created a manufacturing and haircare business.

And she would train and employee 23,000 sales agents and workers across the United States.

- [Barbara] 23,000?

- Yes.

South America and the Caribbean.

And she built this grand estate called Villa Lewaro in 1918.

And it was designed by an early black architect, Vertner Tendy.

And what's powerful about this story, is she accomplished this all before women had the right to vote?

- Oh my goodness.

- Yeah.

- But they did have the right to buy cosmetics.

(all laughing) That's a very important thing.

Yeah, I've read about her and there are books that have been written about her.

So you're preserving her house?

- Yeah, so we protected her house with a preservation easement.

And it's a wonky way of saying it's the strongest legal tool that we use in preservation that protects a place in perpetuity.

So that elegant historic residence that stands to embody the optimism and perseverance of American entrepreneurship will forever tell her story.

- Let me ask you, you mentioned the strongest, which means you can't be torn down, but there are levels in the preservation.

Just give a little example of that.

I know about this because we had a house once, it was on the national register, but it wasn't on the "you can't tear down".

So explain that to people.

People think that anything that's on the national register can't be torn down, but that's not true.

- You're a preservationist.

- I'm a preservationist, yeah.

- That's awesome, yeah.

So my first line of defense, anytime that I'm working to preserve a historic site, it is to protect it, to buy time for its future preservation.

And so if you locally designate a historic building, for example, as a Cincinnati landmark, then that protects it from demolition.

And you have to go through a review process that mitigates any adverse alterations to the character of that building.

So local designation is my starting point.

National register of historic places, that's our nation's inventory of historic sites.

There are about a hundred thousand places in the national inventory, currently only 2% directly reflects the black experience.

The national register is honorary, but the real economic benefit is if you have a building of scale, you can leverage historic tax credits, which is about a 20% equitable investment in rehab projects.

- Oh, that's great.

Now that's important.

- They gotta be revenue generating though.

- Oh, so it can't be a private residence?

- It can't be a house, no.

It's commercial development mainly.

- Well, if someone else tore the house down, that I'm... Yeah, that's a very sore subject in my life.

But I'm really for historic preservation.

Well, what are some of the, Mrs. Walker?

- Yeah, Mrs. Walker, currently some of our projects includes Nina Simone's childhood home that's in Tryon, North Carolina.

- What did she do?

- So Nina Simone is an acclaimed classical musician.

She is a jazz musician.

And the beauty is that this three-room vernacular structure, it's just a simple unadorned house that's in a community of 2,500 in North Carolina.

That building still stands to tell her story.

But I think her real claim to fame is she was the voice of the American Civil Rights Movement.

- [Barbara] Really?

- Yeah.

And she used her art as a form of activism.

And so we partnered with four artists that are based in New York City, and they engaged to save the house from demolition.

They view this as arts activism and a form of politics.

And so we had protected it in perpetuity with an easement.

- Okay, good.

- We are finalizing a stewardship plan for its longterm reuse.

And what I think is most exciting, preservation as a catalyst for economic development in rural communities.

We see how it works in urban markets, like Cincinnati and the vibrancy that we see in downtown.

But it really is an economic driver in rural and small communities all across the country.

- We have sites here that are very interesting and we're hoping that they're gonna appear preserved.

Peg, you know about the Eckstein school.

Tell us a little bit about that.

- There's a school, it's in Glendale, and it was African-American.

It became part of the Princeton City School District at one point, and then the building became vacant.

The community of Glendale, a collaboration of individuals from many parts of the Glendale community, want to preserve the building and they want to make a community center.

But not just a community center, it's a place where it's history can be an informed and young people today can learn about the rich history there in Glendale.

And the Cincinnati Preservation Association was instrumental in saving the building from a developer who wanted to demolish the building.

- [Barbara] Of course.

- And the building now I believe will be able to be developed as the community center the residents would like it to have.

And it's a very important save as they say for preservation.

- Do you know the time period when it was a school?

- I think it was in the early 20th century, 19-- - Nineteen something?

- Yeah.

- And then when the Princeton City Schools was formed, it became part of that.

And Princeton City Schools was formed in the '50s.

Eight school districts were ordered by the state to combine since they were so small.

And then one more was added in the '70s.

- Yeah.

Tell us a little bit... Also we're all, probably the most current thing in our minds is the King Records.

Do you know about King Records?

- I do know about King Records, yeah.

- Peg is also an expert.

Well, but he's the guest, so let's him.

Okay, tell us about King Records.

- I would say that what's beautiful is it's a moment.

The cultural heritage that lives within that fragile and old historic building, it represents a revolution in music.

It was one of the first times that blacks and whites would come together to compose and to create new music, from country to rock to soul music.

That place tells this unique American story.

And it's unfortunate that it is sitting currently unused, but there is so much potential in its reuse.

And I think places like King Records, John and Alice Coltrane home, the Nina Simone childhood home, all of these historic places that helps to bring life and tell the story of American music, they embody so much untapped power and potential.

- So you have to be a historian also.

I mean, you can't just care about the bunny.

You have to have to know about the history of all these different places.

How many places in the United States are you working on current, sort of?

- Yeah.

So when we created the action fund in 2017, and that happened in the aftermath of Charlottesville, and it was that moment where we saw culture heritage in public spaces collide and negative and violent ways.

So we wanted to challenge ourselves and demonstrate that preservation was a tool for equity and justice.

And so we envisioned a twenty-five million dollar campaign to help preserve 150 black history sites for the purpose of helping to expand the American story.

And to date, we've raised more than 50 million.

- Wow, now that's good fundraising.

- That is good fundraising.

And it's because of our meaningful partnerships with organizations like the Ford Foundation, the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation, the JPB and others.

But I'm really excited that we have invested and supported more than 200 preservation projects nationally.

- [Barbara] Wow.

- So it's important to, if you a preservationist, one side of your work and brain needs to be in public history.

I mean, that's the starting point for understanding-- - Yeah, you have to be a historian first.

- You have to be to understand the power of place.

But then you also have to have experience and expertise and preservation practice.

And most importantly, we agree that you have to understand the business of preservation to do this work successfully.

- How does a young kid from Paducah, Kentucky come to be a national presence as a historian and a preservationist?

Tell us a little bit about how that happened.

- I consider myself an accidental preservationist.

And I was sharing the story, kind of by foundational story and how I came to preservation at the forum.

I graduated with an MBA and I started the process-- - From Kentucky?

- University of Kentucky.

- UK.

You got an MBA in?

- In Finance.

- Okay, but before that.

Before that.

- Oh, so way back?

- Yeah, way back when you were a little kid.

When was the first time that you thought you knew that's what you were to be interested in?

- So the first time that I remember appreciating historic architecture.

So we have this beautiful street called Jefferson Avenue.

- [Barbara] In Paducah?

- In Paducah.

And I just remember my brother, we would play this game, "That's gonna be my house.

That's gonna be my house."

And I was drawn to this two-story brick house that had this Japanese inspired architecture, terracotta style roof, and it was so beautiful.

And as I look back and kind of reflect on my kind of introduction to preservation, that was the moment for me.

Within the black community, preservation has been informal.

And when I look back at the ways that, our church congregation would steward and help to save the historic church, or every time we went to our family farm in Central Kentucky and would repaint the house or go mow the family cemetery.

I now look back and realize that in essence, preservation was always part of my DNA.

It just took me years later to realize that there was an opportunity to do this as a career.

- Was your family attuned to this or were you just sort of say, singled yourself out as the guy who liked that?

Did your parents encourage that career?

- Not at all.

- Okay, well, that's why (indistinct).

- And they didn't then.

I just don't know that many African American families realize that preservation is a career opportunity.

I meet people all the time and they're just like, "Wow, I had no idea that you can be academically trained in this work and that you can advocate as a profession on behalf of the culture."

So, yeah.

My parents were all about education and were committed to that.

They instilled that value in us from an early age.

They instilled a value of giving back to our community.

And I feel like those lessons are deeply ingrained in preservation practice.

- Well, it sounds like although they didn't see preservation as a career path because parents, rightly so, want their children to make a living.

(Brent laughs) I mean, that's not an outrageous request.

And if you can't envision this, which I'm sure they couldn't, and as you say, they couldn't, then you have to show them.

And are they still alive?

Do they know about your success?

- They do.

So my dad is still alive and my mom unfortunately passed away in 1990.

But what I think is so beautiful about my connection, and I had this powerful moment with my dad.

So when I was in grad school at University of Kentucky, I conducted the statewide inventory of historic Rosenwald Schools in my home state of Kentucky.

- Wow.

- And it's this remarkable overlooked multi-racial story, where Booker T Washington, who was the social critic and educator and activist, and Julius Rosenwald, who was the second president of Sears and Roebuck, they collaborated to help fund the construction of over 5,000 schools in 15 Southern states.

- [Barbara] Wow.

- And when I conducted my research, I learned that my mom and dad both attended Rosenwald Schools in Central Kentucky.

And recently, Andrew Filer, his beautiful photographic book, just came out, I'd recommend anyone to get a copy.

- Yeah.

- Congressman, John Lewis, wrote the forward.

- Oh, he was just honored, yeah.

- Yeah.

I had the good fortune of writing the afterward and being photographed on the vacant land where my dad attended at Rosenwald School.

- Oh my goodness.

- So the building, it's no longer there, but the flag pole still stands with this tattered flag.

And I just thought it was something almost artistic and hopeful about that flag blowing in the wind.

And I took my nephew with me that day to have that experience.

And it was raining, and we walked that soggy ground whispering to the wind.

And I wondered to myself, when we lose these kinds of cultural assets, where do those memories go?

- Good question.

Couldn't you have a plaque put there?

- You can, yup.

- Well, why don't you?

- Well, I hope that the community will create a plaque.

And my work is developing strategy that is going to create the infrastructure to sustain the black preservation movement.

- Yeah.

Tell us about the Rosenwald Schools.

What would be the era for those?

- It was originated in 1912, and then the program ended in 1932.

- So they built schools specifically, they didn't take other build...

They built the actual building - Yes.

- And then that was for black children because the schools were not integrated?

- So the quality of school buildings and those facilities at the time were so poor.

Many were being run out of church basements or simple houses.

So when Booker T Washington was at Tuskegee University, he created space for the talented 10th and the first generation of academically trained professionals.

So Robert Taylor, first graduate of MIT and the first licensed black architect in the US, he established the School of Architecture Tuskegee.

And he partnered and they developed school plans that communities could replicate.

Rosenwald Schools at the time were the most architecturally advanced school plans for black children in the south.

It wasn't just a revolution in the way black kids were educated, but it was a revolution in the way that we design spaces for education.

- How did children get to go?

Did those schools encompass all the black kids and they all get to go there, or just a select few?

- In essence, they were mainly in rural communities.

And the beauty of the design is that they were dual spaces.

They were both school houses and community centers.

And all of the black children within close proximity of the school would walk there.

And it was a space where the first generation of black graduates from a lot of HBCUs were teachers.

And when I was interviewing some of the descendants, the memories and the pride that they have from being in these school buildings.

- Yeah.

That makes me just...

I choke of just thinking about that.

In these rural communities, imagine how few opportunities.

All you had was hopefully somebody encouraging you and educating you to be better than what you had at the time.

- That's exactly it.

And I don't wanna necessarily use the statistic, but it was something like, one out of three African American children were educated in Rosenwald Schools.

I mean, the scale of its impact, it is transformative.

And I think what's so powerful about the Rosenwald School story or Cincinnati's underground railroad history, or the story of abolitionists history, when white America and black America, Jewish America, when we come together to solve difficult social issues, we-- - It happens.

- It happens.

It can be transformational.

And these historic buildings stand as a testimony to that cooperation and the potential that still exists for our nation.

- Yeah.

And your dad went to one of those schools.

- And my mom.

- And your mom.

- And my aunts and uncles.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

Did any of them go to high school and college?

- Yeah.

So my mom, she went to college, she became a nurse.

My dad went to technical college and he became a painter and painted trains and bridges.

- As a person who's interested in the architectural heritage of buildings, have you ever dabbled in designing stuff yourself?

- You know, I haven't.

And I would love one day to own a...

The big dream is kind of a real estate, a REIT, a real estate development company.

And to be able to own historic buildings and bring that creativity.

Because what we do as preservationists, is we create unique cultural experiences within space.

And designing that kind of experience for visitors and for the community, that for me is really exciting.

- If I were rich and famous, I would restore old buildings, homes.

You go to other cities and places and see houses that are deteriorating.

And here in Cincinnati, I think, "Wow, I would love to get in there and restore that place," 'cause there are so many beautiful things that are dying.

And most of them don't have any history to them.

But the thing we were talking about earlier was that people don't understand that historic preservation is not about the building, although that's a category.

It's about what happened there.

That narrative kind of gets lost.

And for instance, the King Records, if you drove by there, you'd say, "Well, why would you wanna save something like that?"

Well, it's because of what happened there.

- It's what happened there.

And these places that at first glance don't seem to have a lot of history and meaning, but once you discover and you start to conduct research and documentation, and you shine a spotlight on that overlooked history, you begin to expand a community civic identity.

Can you imagine how rich, we know how rich Cincinnati's diverse history is.

And through preservation practice, the rest of Cincinnati's broader community will understand that there are places like Union Baptist Cemetery.

There are places-- - Is that the one (indistinct) - I am not sure of the exact location, but the Regal Theater that's in the West End, the last remnant of a once thriving black community that was full of culture and commerce, impacted by urban renewal in the 1950s and the interstate highway construction.

There's a lot of repair and making amends that can happen through historic preservation.

- I'm so fascinated by the, is it Rosenwald School?

- [Brent] Rosenwald Schools.

- Rosenwald.

How many of those buildings still exists, do you know?

- Based on our research, we anticipate only about 15% of the once 5,000 plus school buildings are still standing.

- But can you save those all?

Maybe with a plaque, at least just with a plaque.

- Well, in 2002, the National Trust for Historic Preservation, we listed Rosenwald Schools on America's 11 most endangered historic places list, similar to Cincinnati's Music Hall, a couple of years ago.

2003, we established our first regional diversity program called the Rosenwald Schools Initiative.

And I'm glad to say that just this year, although small, we have just established a $2.5 million Rosenwald Schools endowment that will help us to be able to have a staff in perpetuity to provide technical assistance to that grassroots movement that we built, and also to provide some micro grants for the preservation of these buildings.

- Barbara, we've been talking a number of things and the grassroots.

And you talked about how will the generations coming up know about this?

And one thing that Mr. Leggs did while he was here is conduct a round table with the University of Cincinnati students.

Some of them are preservation certificate students, but a wide variety of majors.

And the room was the face of the United States.

It represented everybody.

And Mr. Leggs held a conversation, really a masterclass in preservation and informing a community.

I will say that from just yesterday and the enthusiasm and the chatter after that, these students will be now ambassadors to go out and inform other young people on the importance of place, and going back and learning history to inform the future so we're all one as far as our histories and the community.

- Yeah, so you're saying we have a great base of young people who are interested and we just need to make it possible for them to maintain that interest and be activists and professionals 'cause you're certainly a professional.

- And part of activists and part practitioner.

But that experience at UC, of course, I intentionally have been in academia because I feel that I have a responsibility to train the next generation of preservation leaders, but I was so excited and inspired.

I mean, these students were in public history, engineering, business, it was truly a cross representation of the brilliance that's at UC.

Even though some of the perspectives they did not agree, the way that they engaged and had dialogue in such a respectful and thoughtful manner, I mean, there is so much potential.

There's some really bright students at UC.

- And giving them the opportunity to exchange ideas and listen to the other person and maybe form different opinions based on that, or enable other people to change their opinions, I think that's probably the most... Would you say that's maybe the most important thing you do?

Because there are the people who are gonna carry on after we're all gone.

You're not gonna be gone nearly as soon as I am.

(all laughing) But I think that's the future of just about anything, is educating people, kids, to do what you do.

- Yeah.

I think that's probably one of the most important things that we do in preservation.

And that's why CPA is such an important institution in Cincinnati because through preservation practice, they help to expand this community's understanding of itself.

- Yeah.

And we thank Peg for doing that.

You are very important to that organization.

You bring these people in, you educate people and it's really an important and interesting thing.

And I'm so happy that this was a part of it, sort of, and I know what you're doing is wonderful.

And we thank you so much.

- Thank you.

- And thank Peg to keep up the good work.

- Thank you.

- Thanks for watching.

- [Announcer] Join us next week for another episode of Showcase with Barbara Kellar right here on CET.

(calm ambient music)