ANNOUNCER: Tonight on Showcase with Barbara Kellar, former president of the University of Cincinnati, Nancy Zimpher.

Stay tuned, Showcase starts now.

(music) KELLAR: Nancy Zimpher, you are the most incredible person.

I can't imagine anyone with a longer and more illustrious career than you.

And here you are back in Cincinnati.

There are so many things I want to ask you about, but I think I'll start with the latest, which was your last job.

And tell people why you left us and UC?

ZIMPHER: Well, I would never have left you, Barbara.

And as you can see, I've toddled back.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: So I feel really, really good about that.

But, you know, an opportunity came along to lead an entire public university system, really the largest and most complicated one in the country.

And it was just irresistible.

And I like to think that the University of Cincinnati prepared me for that next step.

And in a sense, I feel like I'm giving back by coming back.

So it was a great adventure and a marvelous experience.

But I learned so much here about community and the interaction of campuses to their community that I tried to promote that when I went to New York.

KELLAR: Yeah, well tell people who aren't familiar with that system, tell us a little bit like the Reader's Digest version of what that is.

ZIMPHER: Well, not every state has a public system of higher education, and it's hard to tell Ohioans because we've never had such a system.

We have a policy board that now reports directly to the governor, and it used to be called the Board of Regents.

And they try to coordinate the campuses.

But by and large, Ohio's campuses, their public campuses are pretty much on their own and run by their boards of trustees.

In New York, as chancellor of what was called the State University of New York, I was hired by a board that oversaw 64 campuses.

KELLAR: Oh, my goodness.

ZIMPHER: I know it just sounds incredible to tell it.

KELLAR: 64.

ZIMPHER: So it's interesting because four of them were doctoral institutions.

Four of them were medical schools, two within the system doctoral institutions, but two freestanding medical schools.

Then we had about 16 baccalaureate kind of regional public universities, and then 30 community colleges.

KELLAR: Wow.

ZIMPHER: All under one umbrella, and because you're so interested in the arts, this included the Fashion Institute of Technology as well.

And it also included a maritime academy and optometry school.

KELLAR: Oh, my goodness.

ZIMPHER: So it was just irresistible in the sense that with that kind of scale, you want to say to yourself, "We can really make a difference?"

KELLAR: Well, you know, just thinking, talking about all those different specialties, did you have to do -- What kind of homework did you have to do to feel like you had -- That you could give them good advice, I guess?

ZIMPHER: Well, the interesting thing about it, when I came to UC, in the first few days that I arrived on campus, I toured, it seemed to me every building, every school, every college, including going to Blue Ash and Clermont.

KELLAR: Right.

ZIMPHER: And I've said sort of jokingly, "You know, you could kind of do that in a golf cart in a week."

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: "And still spend plenty of time with the people you wanted to meet."

So I took that idea, like I said, a lot of what I learned here, I carried with me.

And I decided that the best way to begin to serve these 64 campuses was to visit them.

And so starting shortly after I was named as chancellor, which would have been around February, but I didn't really arrive there until June, some poor soul planned an entire itinerary.

And so day one, I did meet the Governor, because the Governor has a lot to say about public higher education in New York.

KELLAR: Was it Cuomo at the time?

ZIMPHER: Governor Cuomo -- No, it was not.

The governor who hired me, his name was David Paterson.

But shortly thereafter, Governor Cuomo began his term.

So my plan was to spend a half a day, that's four hours on every campus.

I started out.

I started with Cornell, which is an interesting story because most people don't know that four of the Cornell colleges belong to the State University of New York.

They're very interesting and very complicated.

But I started there on day two, literally June 2nd, and I came home before Labor Day.

And as a lesson to leaders, I did not go sit in my office.

And you know what?

I don't think I missed a beat.

KELLAR: Well, knowing you, I'm sure you didn't.

ZIMPHER: But isn't that interesting?

People think that, well, in this day you can be anywhere.

But at the time, you were supposed to report to duty.

KELLAR: Exactly.

ZIMPHER: And, you know, get behind that desk and make decisions.

KELLAR: Yes.

Well, first you have to know what you're making decisions about.

ZIMPHER: Exactly.

So, I literally -- And the other thing I would add, because it is kind of interesting.

I thought if I went to one of the regions, like central New York or western New York, if I went to Buffalo, then since there were five SUNY campuses in the Buffalo region, they would all be thrilled to see me Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday.

No, no, no, no.

So, I often would be in Buffalo and then we had five colleges on Long Island.

KELLAR: Oh, my goodness.

ZIMPHER: And that's quite a trip in a car, in a Chevy Tahoe.

That's where I lived my life, in a Chevy Tahoe.

KELLAR: I hope you had a driver.

ZIMPHER: I did.

KELLAR: So you could learn, you could study while -- ZIMPHER: Well, it sounds like a luxury, but, you know, those were hours and hours that I had to be on the phone or working.

KELLAR: Of necessity.

Okay, let's go back then.

What were you doing when you were tapped for UC?

ZIMPHER: Well, I had the great good fortune to be -- You see you called president or chancellor or other names we cannot mention by the air.

KELLAR: But I know what they are, but I prefer Chancellor.

That's my new goal.

I love Chancellor.

ZIMPHER: Well, I was thinking, you know, how grandchildren pick the names of their grandparents.

I was hoping maybe one of them would call me chancellor, but that did not stick.

So I was chancellor of the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee.

KELLAR: Oh, okay.

ZIMPHER: And I was there for five years.

And Wisconsin is a system just like New York.

So people will know that University of Wisconsin Madison was the flagship and next to it, its sister institution would have been Milwaukee, which was viewed as the Urban University.

And so I had five great years there.

And then had the great good fortune to meet a guy named Jeff Wyler.

KELLAR: Oh, yeah.

ZIMPHER: He was an emissary for George Schaefer.

KELLAR: Yeah, I know good George Schaefer too, Fifth Third.

ZIMPHER: And so Jeff called me one day, he called me in Milwaukee and said, "We'd really like to talk to you about our university."

Could you meet me at, you know, the equivalent of Lincoln Airport?

KELLAR: Right.

ZIMPHER: And he said, "I'm going to fly over there."

Well, I thought when it got off the plane he would have a leather bomber jacket and a white scarf.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: Because I actually thought he was flying the plane.

But that aside, that began my relationship with the university.

KELLAR: Did Jeff know you before or did he just have your resume?

ZIMPHER: The latter, and you know in these jobs, there's always a search firm involved and they call you and then they call them.

And they're kind of the go between.

KELLAR: Yeah, the headhunters.

ZIMPHER: Yeah, exactly.

But on that day, we really -- I think it was a very good session.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: And one thing led to another.

And of course George Schaffer was the chair of the board and Jeff would soon be the chair of the board.

And before I knew it, I had the opportunity to come home.

And it was a homecoming for me.

KELLAR: Did you live in Cincinnati?

ZIMPHER: Well, here's the deal.

If you've ever heard of Gallipolis.

KELLAR: Oh, I certainly have.

ZIMPHER: That is my hometown.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: And we used to have a mayor of Columbus who talked a lot about Route 23 and how people came right up Route 23 from southeastern Ohio to Columbus, and that was me.

I began as a freshman at Ohio State in 1964.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: And I left Ohio State to become the Chancellor of the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee in 1998.

So I was literally at Ohio State for almost 35 years.

KELLAR: What was your -- what program were you in at Ohio State?

ZIMPHER: Well I, given the wonderful teachers I had at Gallia Academy High School, I wanted to be an English teacher.

My English teacher, Mrs. Gillingham, was amazing and I wanted to follow in her footsteps.

So as an undergraduate, I majored in English and theater.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: And I did screen work for theater.

I never got to be on the grand stage, but I learned a lot about theater and, of course, speech and speaking.

KELLAR: You need that if you're going to be a chancellor.

ZIMPHER: You do, you talk all the time until people are just tired of listening to you.

KELLAR: Right.

ZIMPHER: So I came to Ohio State and I left, I taught, I came back.

I actually did get a master's degree and a doctoral degree in what's called teacher education.

I was a teacher and then I educated teachers.

And then I designed programs for teachers.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: And became the dean of the College of Education at Ohio State.

And then they wanted to organize the colleges into clusters because there are so many of them.

So they made me an executive Dean.

I mean, I have no shortage of titles.

KELLAR: I'm making notes of all of them.

ZIMPHER: So anyway, I was executive dean.

And it was sort of like being a provost or a vice president for academic affairs.

It gave me some credentials to be able to say that I understood the whole university environment.

And I think that's probably what was appealing about the search process in Milwaukee, and off I went.

KELLAR: Yeah.

So when you -- what year was that when you came to Cincinnati as president?

ZIMPHER: 2003.

KELLAR: So 17 years ago.

Wow.

ZIMPHER: That seems almost impossible.

So I was here 2003-2009.

Of course, I was so busy, I was oblivious to the fact that we were entering into the Great Recession.

It was a tough time to join a new environment.

KELLAR: Right.

ZIMPHER: Because the states were really struggling: Ohio, New York, everybody.

And public funding for higher education was declining.

And it was just a really tough time, but I persevered.

And so I was at SUNY, as we call it, for 8 years.

And then I became a professor for a couple more.

So I really just physically left to New York to finally live full time in Cincinnati in January of this year.

KELLAR: Wow.

So you have come home.

ZIMPHER: I have.

KELLAR: We're all very flattered because your time in UC must have been mostly wonderful, happy, productive.

There's no job that is 100% joy.

And I'm sure you had some ups and downs, but what would you say was your biggest accomplishment?

ZIMPHER: Well, you know, I -- first of all, I was kind of nervous.

Barbara, I love your show and I'm thrilled to be here, but I'm sort of trying to think, get my thoughts together.

And I thought you might ask me and I thought I might beg for two.

KELLAR: Okay.

ZIMPHER: Two.

KELLAR: That's okay.

ZIMPHER: So one of the things I helped with, and believe me, it was a team, was to create a collaborative effort where the universities and the local school districts can work more effectively together.

KELLAR: Wow, good.

ZIMPHER: To me, the concept of an education pipeline really begins at birth.

And every step of the way, we have to be paying attention to the quality of the education we deliver all the way through college or a two year or four year or a certificate or a badge into a career.

And so through a lot of conversation and compromise and mutual interest, we formed a partnership in Cincinnati in 2006.

So it took about three years to get settled in.

And when that partnership was announced, the people at the table included not only UC, but Northern Kentucky, Xavier, Gateway, Cincinnati Public Schools, the Newport Public Schools, the Covington Public Schools, the diocesan schools.

And oh my goodness, if that kind of talent can't get its act together, we are really in trouble.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: And I feel like the University of Cincinnati was quite an instigator, along with the Knowledge Works Foundation, which was very supportive, and as were all the people I named.

Just an incredible initiative.

And just cut to the chase, that model of how you come together to share an important goal has now spread to over 70 communities across the country.

KELLAR: Wow.

ZIMPHER: And it started here.

KELLAR: And you were the mother?

ZIMPHER: I was one of them.

We had a lot of mothers and fathers.

And we launched on the Purple People Bridge so that we could connect Kentucky and Ohio.

You know, it's so hard to work across state lines.

KELLAR: Oh, yeah.

ZIMPHER: But we did that, too.

And so the second thing just, I know in the interest of time, but I have to say it, it's that Uptown Consortium.

It's the fact that the University of Cincinnati and Children's and the Zoo and TriHealth, and of course the university, that we would be good partners to our neighbors.

I am thrilled to see what's happening in Uptown these days.

KELLAR: You know, I was on the board of the foundation and one of our little sessions, they did a presentation about that and what was going on and what had been accomplished.

I was blown away.

I had no idea because I don't drive around in those areas.

ZIMPHER: I know.

KELLAR: And if you're not attune to it, you just think that it's-- It just happened overnight, but it didn't.

ZIMPHER: I think people -- I like the fact that it happened overnight.

Of course, it took a good decade or more and lots of investment, but we were paying attention to our neighborhoods, to Mount Auburn and to Clifton and to Avondale, I mean, the University District called the CUF.

I mean, it mattered to us.

Short Vine mattered to us.

And one of the things that really mattered to us was to get an exit off the freeway.

KELLAR: Oh, yeah, I remember.

ZIMPHER: And look what's happened, it's like weeds.

Things are growing around that exit.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: Because that's a direct line to University Hospital, to Children's Hospital, to TriHealth, to the Zoo, and to the university.

And of course, we in our early conversations with the Department of Transportation, they started talking about 20 years in.

No, no, no, no, no.

We need this now.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: And I think they did it in less than seven years.

It's a miracle.

KELLAR: Yeah.

Didn't Buck Niehoff help you a lot with that?

ZIMPHER: Well, Buck also was board chair for the University of Cincinnati, and he has that Niehoff Studio on Short Vine.

And yes, he was very much involved.

I mean, in a forward thinking people knew we had to do this.

And at the same time, I was on the board of 3CDC.

So we were working downtown and Over-the-Rhine and Uptown and the Uptown Consortium in the neighborhoods.

And it's now an innovation hub that is recognized internationally.

It's just spectacular.

KELLAR: Oh, my gosh, yeah, I can attest to that.

And it's going to continue.

ZIMPHER: Oh, there's no stopping it.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: But keeping an eye on the neighborhoods, on the quality of life in those five neighborhoods is still a huge priority.

We want faculty, staff, and students to feel like they can live here, that these are their neighborhoods.

And you know what?

When you feel like you really are a resident, you take more care.

KELLAR: Yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

There's so many important tangents to that whole philosophy and you had your hands on of all the different aspects of it.

And that's what has made you such a phenomenal leader.

And I know you're not retired, exactly.

No one like you ever retires.

So what are you doing currently?

ZIMPHER: Well, I think we knew -- We do need a new word for retirement.

KELLAR: Oh, yes.

ZIMPHER: Because there is a concept called retirement.

And you do leave one organization to go on to do other things.

But I have managed to fill my plate and I'm working with other systems of higher education.

We're trying to think our way through the post pandemic context.

Everybody says don't let a crisis go to waste.

The universities have to change.

I mean, after all, we went remote in two weeks.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: We can turn on a dime.

KELLAR: Yeah, you can.

ZIMPHER: And we never closed.

KELLAR: Yes.

ZIMPHER: People think we closed.

Well, that's the wrong word.

So I am what's called a senior fellow.

Like I said, I have no shortage of titles.

So I work at the national level with systems really literally from New York to California, and even Alaska and Hawaii.

They are systems, public systems.

They're about 40 across the country.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: Then it probably wouldn't come as a surprise to some of my friends from UC, I'm working with the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: And the Knight Commission has as its -- Really its base of philosophy that protecting the education, health, safety, and success of our student athletes is its highest priority.

So even now when you see that we are playing football and, you know, the lives of the students, the student athletes, that's our highest priority.

And we're sort of a standard for keeping our philosophy and our values in front of us when all that goes around athletics seems to swirl.

And of course, I had, in my view, a wonderful experience with athletics at the University of Cincinnati, But as as in the grocery store, I learned that there are many opinions about your leadership and I've always, even today, gotten advice in the grocery store about what I could have done better or differently.

And I take that point, I truly do.

So I'm also doing some leadership training for a thing called the Association of Governing Boards.

And that's all the boards of trustees of public and private universities across the country.

So I'm helping educate people who, like me, knew at some point they might want to be a chancellor or president.

And my role has been to help prepare them for that role.

KELLAR: Yeah, I'm worn out just -- ZIMPHER: It is a balancing act, it really is.

And I should say one more thing, Barbara.

I take great pride in being on the board of a thing called the Foundation for Appalachian Ohio.

And when it was founded, they they wanted to show young people in Appalachia that success was within their reach.

And so they started a program called I'm a Child of Appalachia.

And their first three examples were Rocky Boots in Nelsonville and the owner of that enterprise, and Bob Evans from Rio Grande and Bob and Bob Evans Farms, and me.

So I'm very proud of being a Child of Appalachian.

Now, my son went to Ohio University and when they started this award, they decided that they should put our pictures on a billboard.

And can you imagine one of my son's friends saying, "Hey, your mom's on a billboard out on 33."

KELLAR: Oh no!

ZIMPHER: So I thought it was funny.

He didn't, of course, but now he knows.

KELLAR: Yeah, well, I actually am a Child in Appalachia because that's where my ancestors were and I'm interested in the history.

But also, if I were Bill Gates, that's one place I would put a lot of money.

ZIMPHER: Well, that's -- The foundation really is about building philanthropy in the 32 Appalachian counties.

And by the way, my dear idol, Marian Spencer is from Gallipolis.

KELLAR: Yeah, oh, she is?

ZIMPHER: It's such a sweet story.

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

So did you know her?

Oh no.

But I did when I got here, I'm telling you.

Is there anybody who didn't?

KELLAR: Yeah, right.

She was a great friend.

ZIMPHER: Really special, and Donald, yeah, just terrific.

KELLAR: My husband, Larry, was great friends with both of them.

He loved them both.

But she was a trailblazer, as you are too.

And you know, I hesitate to say this, but I'm going to anyway.

As a woman, you -- Talk about the glass.

There's no ceiling that you haven't broken and no one that I ever knew who referred to you or thought that you being a woman had anything to do with what you did, bad or good.

And I think that's, as a role model, you are absolutely the pinnacle of what young girls could aspire to.

ZIMPHER: Well, that is overwhelming to me, Barbara.

But I'll just say I did have good role models.

They didn't run corporations, but my mother and my English teacher and my sister and all the women in my grandparents, all the children of my parents, their siblings, many were teachers, some became professional, doctors, lawyers.

And it was very important to me to work and to -- and eventually to lead.

I didn't understand leadership when I was shopping for a career because I'm not sure I ever shopped for a career.

KELLAR: But it came to you, I know.

ZIMPHER: Well, actually, I would say this.

When I applied or was nominated to be the dean of the ED School at Ohio State, someone asked me why and the world, in the interview, why in the world would you want this job?

And I, you know, sometimes there's no filter between the brain and the mouth.

And I said, "Because I like to be in charge."

KELLAR: Good for you.

ZIMPHER: And then I went on to say, "I think things go better when I am."

Now, isn't that just ridiculous?

But you've got to feel like you can do the job.

KELLAR: Yes.

If you don't believe in you, who else is going to?

ZIMPHER: But I have one story I want to share about that.

So in summary, I was the first woman dean of the College of Education at Ohio State, the first woman chancellor at the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee, the first woman president of the University of Cincinnati, and the first woman chancellor of the State University of New York.

So when you're on the speaker's tour, as I did many, many times, I took a student from UC who was shadowing me to Rotary, where I was speaking over the lunch.

And he wanted to go see how that went.

And, okay.

He didn't have transport, so I drove him.

He didn't have a car, didn't have a lunch ticket, so we fed him.

On the way back, having observed how people were introducing me as the keynote speaker that day, he said, "Don't you get tired of being introduced as the first woman, blah, blah, blah?"

I had never heard that question before.

And I heard myself say, "When it doesn't need to be said anymore, it won't."

KELLAR: Oh, good answer.

ZIMPHER: But, you know.

KELLAR: That is profound.

ZIMPHER: Think about it.

KELLAR: Absolutely, when nobody thinks it, nobody is going to say it.. ZIMPHER: Nobody's going to say it.

But, you know, sometimes being the only voice in an all male room does require that people listen more closely.

So, you take something that seems like people think it's a deficit and you turn it into a strength and an opportunity.

KELLAR: Yeah.

ZIMPHER: But we can't have enough women who are showing young girls and women of your own age or even women who are older than you that you can do it.

KELLAR: Yeah, and they're more and more and more.

And you're sort of the poster child for what women can achieve.

And it's the year of the woman we're in right now.

ZIMPHER: But you know what, Barbara?

Many of my mentors, in fact, most of them were men.

The people who nominated me or wrote letters for me or made a call for me, they were men.

And so there's no reason to alienate by gender.

It doesn't make any sense.

KELLAR: No, absolutely not.

Everybody is anybody.

And you're just great proof of it.

And I know those people and I thank those people for bringing you to us and for bringing you home.

ZIMPHER: My privilege.

KELLAR: You are a great, great asset.

And you've got your red and black on.

I do.

KELLAR: We can't see the bottom, but it's black.

ZIMPHER: It's black.

KELLAR: And we really appreciate that you are part of our family.

ZIMPHER: Thank you.

KELLAR: And thanks for -- Welcome back to the home.

And we look forward to many more years of your accomplishments.

ZIMPHER: Well, I do want to say to every Cincinnatian, this is a lovely community, this is a vibrant arts community.

We have all these educational establishments.

I love it here.

And I overlook the river and I can think about my hometown at the same time.

I'm enjoying the Cincinnati culture.

KELLAR: Oh, well, we enjoy you very much.

ZIMPHER: Thank you.

KELLAR: Thank you so much for coming.

We loved you.

ZIMPHER: Thank you, Barbara.

ANNOUNCER: Join us next week for another episode of Showcase with Barbara Kellar right here on CET.

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