ANNOUNCER: On this episode of Showcase with Barbara Kellar, we're joined by Cincinnati icon Jim Tarbell, along with authors Buck Niehoff and Greg Hand.

Through stories and reflection, they celebrate the life, energy and unmistakable spirit of Mr.

Cincinnati, as captured in their books Tarbell and Tarbellpalooza!

From art and activism to curiosity and community, it's a lively look at a man whose story is inseparable from the city he loves.

Stay with us.

Showcase starts right now.

[music] KELLAR: Hi, I'm Barbara Kellar.

Welcome to Showcase.

Do we have a fun show today?

Yes.

We have a trio of gentlemen who are in there, individually they are icons of Cincinnati.

Greg Hand, Jim Tarbell, and Buck Niehoff.

And why are we gathered here today?

Because all of these gentlemen have been individually on Showcase because they each have such incredible lives.

But today, we're here to talk about a book.

What's the book?

The book is about Jim, written by Buck and edited by Greg.

So we're going to talk about, Jim, is that okay if we talk about you?

TARBELL: Well, if you have to, I guess.

Yeah.

KELLAR: Okay.

Okay.

TARBELL: Whatever it takes.

KELLAR: Do you know what prompted Buck to write a book about you?

TARBELL: Uh, I'm running out of things to do, I guess.

I mean, I don't know.

Uh, there are so many things, so many places to go, so much work to do.

Uh, obviously, he's, uh, not perfect.

KELLAR: Buck is not perfect?

Oh.

Well, I -- Well, now that's a discussion.

We usually do not do controversy, but in this case, we will do controversy because I think Buck is perfect.

NIEHOFF: Thank you.

Barbara.

KELLAR: Every, every, every -- HAND: He's certainly dedicated because he's been on this case for what is it now, seven years?

NIEHOFF: Nine years.

KELLAR: Nine years you've been doing.

Well, Buck, why did you decide to write a book about Tarbell?

NIEHOFF: I believe that Jim is a important presence in the city of Cincinnati.

He has contributed humor, merrymaking, but he's also helped us redefine what it means to live in the downtown, to experience urban living.

KELLAR: Right.

NIEHOFF: And he helped save Over-the-Rhine from the wrecking ball.

So he's much more than a jolly, jolly character.

KELLAR: Raconteur.

NIEHOFF: Raconteur.

Yeah, he does talk a lot.

And I thought his story really needed to be told for the City of Cincinnati.

I interviewed him for nine years, starting in 2017.

KELLAR: That's a long interview.

NIEHOFF: It's a long, long interview.

TARBELL: Seems like only yesterday.

KELLAR: Yeah.

NIEHOFF: The problem is he's such a good storyteller that he would get involved with telling something during the interview, and we would never get to the point of what we were supposed to be talking about.

KELLAR: Right.

NIEHOFF: So it just took a long time.

KELLAR: Yeah.

For those who've just arrived in Cincinnati, Jim Tarbell, if you've driven around downtown, which is his heartland, he is on an urban wall.

You're the only living person, aren't you, who's on a wall?

TARBELL: I've heard that rumor.

Yeah.

KELLAR: Yes, you are the only.

Isn't that correct?

NIEHOFF: That's correct.

KELLAR: Yes, that's been up.

When did they put that up, that urban wall with you as Mr.

Peanut with your top hat?

When did that?

Do you know?

Do you remember?

TARBELL: About 15 years ago.

KELLAR: 15?

Yeah.

Were you surprised?

TARBELL: Well, when they called me about that idea, I gave him the name of a psychiatrist and the sheriff and the chief of police.

And I thought, well, let's see if they can survive that interview.

And the kicker was I was curious as to who was going to paint it.

KELLAR: Yeah.

TARBELL: And when they said it was somebody I didn't know, but his name was Tim Parsley, I said, "Takes care of that.

Anybody with a name like parsley is all right with me."

I'm very partial to parsley.

KELLAR: I thought he did a terrific job.

TARBELL: Yeah.

He did.

KELLAR: I mean, it really, it is you.

TARBELL: Yeah.

KELLAR: Yeah.

Exactly, exactly.

Greg, you're the editor, right?

HAND: Well, this project started out, uh, Buck and I got into trouble for the University of Cincinnati Bicentennial.

KELLAR: Oh.

HAND: And, uh, we were part of a team that produced a couple of books to honor the bicentennial.

And as we got into this project, we realized that we were actually talking about two books.

And so, Buck has a book of interviews with the gentleman that we have come to refer to as our subject.

And I collected contributions from people who knew him who could tell tales out of school in some cases.

KELLAR: Right.

HAND: And so we've ended up with 2 books in honor of our subject.

KELLAR: Oh, I didn't realize there are two.

Where's the other one?

HAND: We got copies of both of them.

KELLAR: Oh, you do?

I only got one.

NIEHOFF: Yeah.

You only got the biography.

And the book of essays came out at a different time.

KELLAR: Oh, okay.

Before this one?

NIEHOFF: Yeah, yeah.

HAND: Yeah, they were both launched December 9th.

NIEHOFF: Yeah.

KELLAR: Oh, both at the same time.

HAND: Yep.

KELLAR: Normally, Greg, when I think of an editor as the person who goes over the script and looks for mistakes.

HAND: I did that part, too.

There was a lot of fact checking involved.

Because it was?

But because our subject creates mythology as he walks around and so we have to make sure that, uh -- Actually, the amazing parts of the tales were the ones that checked out just fine.

KELLAR: Yeah, yeah.

How in the world would you verify some of what Tarbell?

NIEHOFF: You can't?

It's impossible.

It's impossible.

The one thing I would say is that during the nine years that I interviewed him, he told me many of the stories many, many times.

And the remarkable thing is that during that period of nine years, there was consistency.

He didn't make the story bigger, more elaborate.

It was the same, which is very unusual.

Most people, as they retell a story, they make it more exciting.

KELLAR: Yeah.

NIEHOFF: I think the other thing that's important about Jim is that everyone in Cincinnati knows who he is.

KELLAR: Yes.

NIEHOFF: Last weekend I was in my yoga class, and I was talking to the fellow at the next mat, and I was telling him about my book.

And he said, "Who's Jim Tarbell?"

KELLAR: [gasps] NIEHOFF: And I said, "You're not from Cincinnati."

And he said, "You're right.

How did you know that?"

And I explained that everyone in Cincinnati knows who Jim Tarbell is.

Yeah, that's a good way to, uh -- That should be the test, the test question of someone coming into the city.

So how many hours do you think you spent with Jim to get all that information?

NIEHOFF: Pretty much one interview a week for virtually nine years.

KELLAR: Wow.

And we would usually go out to a coffee house or have breakfast together or sometimes lunch together.

And so it'd be a couple hours each time.

And I would take notes.

The interesting thing, for three years I had this little spiral note pad next to my plate, like at lunchtime, and I'd be writing things down.

Which is kind of an unusual thing for someone to be doing during lunch.

And probably for the first three years, he didn't ask me what I was doing, and I puzzled about that, and I think it was because he was so busy talking to me that he didn't notice it.

And then finally one day, he asked me what I was doing, and I explained I was taking notes for a book.

Oh, you didn't tell him it was about him?

NIEHOFF: No.

KELLAR: And you didn't know it was about you?

NIEHOFF: Not at first, TARBELL: No, I just thought it was, you know, I was being paid by the word, you know, which turns out not to be true.

KELLAR: Right.

TARBELL: But it was an interesting, I mean, it was a fascinating experience with different settings, you know, the interviews were different settings and different things going on.

And, but there was this concentration and I thought, "I wonder what this man does in his spare time."

You know?

KELLAR: That was his spare time.

TARBELL: I'm just not used to getting that kind of attention.

KELLAR: Oh, but it was -- It felt good, though, didn't it?

TARBELL: Yeah, but it's still kind of a mystery.

What's really going on here?

I think there's probably another book coming up that explains this book.

And then, then the third book will explain the first two.

KELLAR: Yeah.

TARBELL: And that's where Greg comes in.

KELLAR: Right.

So you already told that story in book number two.

HAND: Yeah.

The interesting thing is I call Buck's book the synoptic book because it's one person, one on one interviews with our subject.

Whereas the other one, Jim Borgman, the cartoonist, contributed a chapter, Jerry Kaufmann, who was with -- KELLAR: Yeah, we all know Jerry.

HAND: Yeah, contributed a chapter and a number of the people who worked at Arnold's and at Grammer's contributed chapters.

And all of their stories harmonize with the stories that Buck picked up for his book.

So there's no contradictions.

They just have a different perspective on the same sorts of things.

KELLAR: Yeah, you maybe our viewers don't know, Jim owned Arnold's.

TARBELL: Mhm.

KELLAR: That's a Cincinnati staple, Arnold's, and then Grammer's.

TARBELL: Arnold's is going strong.

Grammer's is being worked on right now.

They're getting ready to reopen it.

And Arnold's is the oldest saloon in the city.

KELLAR: When was it opened as a saloon?

TARBELL: Well, as a -- it's got a lot of history before it actually became a full service bar restaurant.

But the current context that is is it's the oldest tavern in the city.

And that part started, uh, it was originally in 1860.

KELLAR: Civil War, gosh.

TARBELL: That was just the bar.

And then right after, or during prohibition, it became a restaurant as well.

KELLAR: Yeah, but that's a long leap from 1860 in the Civil War up to prohibition.

I mean, is this building stable?

TARBELL: Oh, yeah.

It's a strong today as it was.

1848 is when it was built by a woman.

It was a before Arnold's the building existed before Arnold's name came into it.

And that was a woman that opened it as a boarding house.

And this is during the, shall we say, the gold rush of people moving into Cincinnati.

And they couldn't build it fast enough.

But it was very unique for a woman at that time -- KELLAR: Yeah, at that time, wow.

TARBELL: -- to be building a building.

It became successful then, it was a duplex.

And one side of it was a tannery and a feed store originally, the other side was a men's attention room, you know.

KELLAR: A barbershop?

TARBELL: Barbershop.

It was known as the Washington Dressing Room.

KELLAR: Washington Dressing Room.

I love that.

Yeah.

So you, well -- NIEHOFF: Barbara, let me tell you one.

As you know, I'm a walker.

And walking with Jim Tarbell is an experience.

There are two basic problems.

When you walk with him downtown, he knows everyone.

So progress is very slow because he stops to talk to everyone he sees along the way.

And one time I walked from Fountain Square to Arnold's Bar and Grill.

Took me seven minutes by myself.

And then I walked back to Fountain Square with Jim.

And it took an hour and 20 minutes because we stopped and talked to people.

We did selfies.

We went into Batsakes, talked to people inside the store.

KELLAR: A hat shop.

NIEHOFF: And then the second problem of walking with Jim is that he doesn't walk and talk at the same time, like normal people do.

When he starts talking, he stops.

So if he's telling me a story about a building along the way, we stop and when he finishes the story, then we start walking again.

So walking with Jim Tarbell, something that I refused to do anymore in my life.

I've done that.

KELLAR: You've been there and you've done that and you even wrote the book about it.

NIEHOFF: Right, and don't have to do it again.

KELLAR: And you're not doing it anymore.

Well, I think seeing in any other format he would, Jim, you would be an excellent person to talk to.

But... TARBELL: Well, there's a lot of territory that is in motion right now in the Center City, you know?

And some of it is historic and the need to talk about it right now, ongoing, is so that it doesn't lose its sense of history, much less the bricks and mortar that it.

KELLAR: Yeah.

TARBELL: The other part is that there are, uh -- There's under developed territory, particularly what's called Northern Lights or -- Liberty Street was originally called Liberty Street because there was a law that you were not allowed to have any business that had to do with alcoholic beverages south of Liberty.

You weren't allowed to have anything that was Catholic, like a Catholic church.

KELLAR: Oh my goodness, that was a law.

TARBELL: The law, and that's where the name Liberty came from.

So fast forward to today, and if you're north of Liberty, that became known as Northern Liberties, because if you went north of Liberty, you could do anything -- Not anything you wanted, but you could use those two things.

KELLAR: Wow.

TARBELL: And so a lot of that, there's a certain kind of development of Cincinnati between the river and Liberty that is pretty much finished.

And Over-the-Rhine is the most recent example of one that wasn't, that's been redone.

And it speaks for itself in terms of its contribution to Cincinnati's life and living.

But once you get above Liberty, you go to -- You jump forward to Findlay Market and it's a standalone, you know, in terms of its importance, its architecture.

But there are a lot of parts in between Liberty and Findlay Market that are just kind of -- KELLAR: Yeah.

TARBELL: You know, and that's what Tarbell and company are focused on right now is the resurrection of Over-the-Rhine as leap forward to the resurrection of Liberty and what's going on between there and the base of the hill.

And that includes inclines, because we had more inclines than any city in the country.

KELLAR: I actually was, as a child, on the incline that went up to Mount Adams.

TARBELL: Mount Adams.

But we had 14 at one time or another.

And not to mention a couple of cable cars.

Mount Adams and Mount Auburn, for instance, if you go to Nikolas restaurant, there's a plaque there that says barn -- The barn stable.

KELLAR: Yeah.

TARBELL: It was the barn stable for the incline that went from the end of Main Street up to the top of the hill.

HAND: Main street Mount Auburn incline.

TARBELL: Yeah.

And that became added to with a cable car line.

So at one time, Mount Auburn had incline and cable car line.

I think the only, I think the only city in the country at the time that had both of those going on at the same time.

So part of me feels that we should at least honor that tradition of that kind of vernacular ascent that made it easier to take the walk.

And, you know, we've had them from one side of Cincinnati to the other side of Cincinnati at one time.

And now we have none.

And some of us would argue that we need to bring one, at least one of them back.

Now, not only because it's practical, but because it's, I think, it tells a story about Cincinnati and its history.

And it's also a way of bringing people into Cincinnati.

KELLAR: Yeah.

Didn't -- Wasn't there an effort to bring an inclined back a few years ago?

TARBELL: I think off and on there have been a number of, but nothing has ever really -- KELLAR: Nothing's ever happened.

You are the biggest advocate for Over-the-Rhine.

Well, how does -- how do you do that?

Do you go to city council meetings?

How did you become such of the major person advocating for Over-the-Rhine?

TARBELL: For me, it was just doing what comes naturally.

You know?

I grew up in a neighborhood in Hyde Park that was -- Had been preserved, had been taken care of all of its life.

And suddenly I'm in the heart of downtown, and I'm noticing that this building, that building and the other building are vacant, and there's no logical explanation for that.

So it's just, I think the citizen in me, you know, the neighborhood in me said that, you know, that didn't make any sense.

So.

KELLAR: So did you start talking to people who could, like landlords or developers?

TARBELL: Anybody.

KELLAR: Anybody who would listen.

TARBELL: Anybody who would listen.

KELLAR: Buck, would you say that?

NIEHOFF: Yes, anybody and everybody.

And the other thing that Jim did, he put his own money on the line.

If there was a building in Over-the-Rhine that was about ready to be torn down, it was derelict.

He would buy it, stabilize it with his own money and then resell it.

KELLAR: Yeah.

NIEHOFF: Usually at a not a profit.

TARBELL: That one building I made $47.

KELLAR: Well, that'll get you -- Yeah.

TARBELL: And then and that was the same time Grammer's was in need of financial support, and so I sold that building to put that money into Grammer's.

KELLAR: Yeah.

Yeah.

So you are somewhat of a developer.

You could be called a developer because you buy properties.

TARBELL: Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of definitions for developer, I guess.

And I hope that we live to see the day that anything that has developer attached to it is something to be proud of.

KELLAR: Yeah, instead of thinking of a developer as someone who tears down buildings, we want to think of a developer as someone who buys the building and revives it.

That's the good.

That's the good developer.

And that is you and that's how -- Has that sort of been your method of making a living?

TARBELL: You'll have to talk to Mrs.

Tarbell about that.

KELLAR: I have talked to Brenda.

Brenda is an artist.

And she's, not too long ago, she was on Showcase.

Yes.

TARBELL: She's a big, big part of making all this work because, she had a very promising career as a ceramic artist, which she does now still.

But there was this in-between period where I needed a cook at the kitchen, in the kitchen at Arnold's.

The only thing better than cooking clay for her was cooking apples and apple pie.

KELLAR: And making chili.

TARBELL: So I talked her into putting her career as a ceramic artist on hold for a while in deference to making Arnold's work.

And so it all worked.

KELLAR: And that's in the book.

Yes.

Yeah.

See, all of that is in this book, which is a treasure, as you are.

Yes.

Buck, do you have any more books in you?

NIEHOFF: I'd like to write another book about someone else who's made a significant contribution to Cincinnati.

And I'm looking for the right person to write about.

And I would go about it the same way, interview that person for as long as it takes.

KELLAR: Hopefully not seven years.

NIEHOFF: Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't know if I've nine years left.

But for me, I didn't ever want to interview other people, I just wanted Jim's voice to be in the book.

KELLAR: Yeah.

Well, it is, and it's a fascinating book.

I hope Cincinnatians will get it.

It's easy.

You know, a couple of sessions and you've read it.

But if you love Cincinnati and you love what you've done, which is phenomenal, you should read the book.

And you guys, you have to come back when you do the next one.

And you've, as you say, you've been around a lot.

You know Cincinnati.

HAND: A lot of crossroads go through the University of Cincinnati.

And in fact, that's how Buck and I met.

KELLAR: Well, is it?

Because Buck is big.

I mean, he's done tremendous things for UC.

And you're also an architect of sorts.

NIEHOFF: Yes.

KELLAR: You love architecture.

Yeah.

And you sort of keep these two within borders.

HAND: Yeah.

Buck is by far the one who has done more in person with Jim.

I'm mostly dealing with his cadre of co-conspirators, as it were.

TARBELL: You're the -- He's the more romantic one.

KELLAR: Well, you've all done fabulous things, and you're still doing them, and you'll continue to do them.

And thank you guys so much you for coming and talking about it.

It's been great.

I love it.

Yeah.

Thank you.

NIEHOFF: It's been fun.

ANNOUNCER: Join us next week for another episode of Showcase with Barbara Kellar right here on CET.