(dramatic music) - [Announcer] On this episode of "Showcase with Barbara Kellar," we're joined by Wade Johnson, CEO of Tri-State Trails and Sean McGrory, Board President.

Together they discuss how trail planning, public investment, and regional collaboration are shaping Cincinnati's transportation future, expanding access to outdoor spaces and connecting neighborhoods across the Tri-State region.

Stay with us.

Showcase starts right now.

(dramatic music) - Hi, I'm Barbara Kellar.

Welcome to Showcase.

We have today two really interesting, great guys.

They are talking to you about trails, and everybody loves trails, I think.

So let's start, tell us what you, what you're, why you're here.

- So, I'm Wade Johnston.

I am the Executive Director of Tri-State Trails.

I lead a small nonprofit organization that is working to connect and expand our trail and bikeway network around greater Cincinnati.

So we work with local governments and community groups and help them navigate the process of planning a trail, finding the funding, building it with best practices, and then promoting it so that people enjoy the trails that we have in greater Cincinnati.

- Oh, and Sean is, are you head of the board?

- I'm the head of the board for.

- Head of the board.

- For Tri-State Trails.

- And tell us how you got interested.

You must be a runner.

- I'm a runner, and I'm a cyclist, so I'm a lover of trails.

So I got involved about 10 years ago with the Wasson Way Trail, and it was when the Wasson Way was really just an idea, a concept by the founder of Wasson Way, a fellow named Jay Andres and his daughter Julie.

And they had successfully built a grassroots group that advocated for the city to acquire the old Norfolk and Southern Railroad that ran through Hyde Park.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- With the goal of one day turning it into a trail.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And when the city acquired that back in 2012, it took a few years of advocacy, but then the trail was able to be built once the ground was acquired.

So I joined the board of Wasson Way to help make that happen.

- Was that the, well, first of all before I ask any more about Wasson Way, for those who don't know about Wasson Way, tell us where it is.

- Sure, Wasson Way is an old rail line that runs basically from Ault Park all the way through Hyde Park, Evanston and up into Avondale.

And the city bought that, I think they closed on it in 2016.

And it's about three and a half miles long.

- [Barbara] Okay.

- [Sean] And it's become the backbone of the Crown network that Wade will talk about, which is our really our grand vision for - [Barbara] Right.

- [Sean] A trail network around Cincinnati.

- Yeah, that was a very, 'cause I live in Hyde Park, so I watched it happen, and it's really amazing how many people take advantage of that and love using it.

And is it exactly on the railroad tracks?

- It is, it is exactly where the old rail line was.

- But is the pavement right on top of the tracks?

- The tracks were taken up.

- [Barbara] Oh, okay.

- The tracks were taken up.

Yep, and which is good because it made for a better construction.

- Yeah, that would've been a little.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Some trails they've taken the tracks up but left the ties in, and it creates problems down the line.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- So this, we really, the city really went about doing it the right way.

And so it's gonna be a permanent feature.

- Was that sort of the forerunner of everything else you're doing?

Was that the first?

- It it was, really, truly the first in the region was the Little Miami Trail that, sometimes known as the Loveland Trail.

That's been in place for about 30 years.

- [Barbara] Wow.

- And that's really what I think first got people thinking a lot about trails in the region.

- Oh, that, so Wasson was really, was second.

- Yeah, Wasson came later, and it was really the idea of extending what at that time was kind of a suburban trail, the Little Miami Trail, an this idea of making it into an urban trail network.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And we could extend that into the city.

- [Barbara] Yeah, so we consider ourselves urban.

- Yes.

- I don't think of Hyde Park like that, but I guess we are urban compared to Loveland.

- Yes, we're in the city limits, yeah.

- Yeah, so did you get involved in, this is your, you're the CEO.

- Yeah.

- Because you're a runner?

- I'm a cyclist.

So I went to school for Urban Planning at the University of Cincinnati.

- [Barbara] Okay.

- And focused a lot of my studies on planning bike infrastructure.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And I was, I feel lucky to have been at the right place at the right time when this position was created.

So, Tri-State Trails used to be housed within Green Umbrella, which is an environmental sustainability nonprofit.

So back in 2015, they secured grant funding to create a full-time position to support trail development in Greater Cincinnati, and I was able to bring kinda my personal experience of biking around town for transportation and my career studies at school in urban planning to this job and bring those skills.

And it's been a really fun job over the past 11 years to.

- Oh, you've been there 11 years?

- [Wade] Yeah.

- Oh, wow, okay.

- I know that I was young when I got the gig.

- Yeah, looking at you though, 11 years ago you were in what, ninth grade?

Yeah.

(all laughing) - And yeah, I mean, it's been a real adventure building the case for this project and then getting to see it implemented in phases over the years.

- [Barbara] Wow.

- And one of our biggest accomplishments was bringing together several trail groups, the Wasson Way, the Ohio River Way with local government organizations like the city of Cincinnati, Great Parks of Hamilton County.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- To work together on this project.

And we raised $10 million privately that has leveraged public, state and federal grants that is enabling the trail to be built more quickly.

- One, people like to give to something that's successful.

- [Wade] Yeah.

- And once you're successful, then you get more money.

And are you in charge?

Are there other, how many employees do you have is what I'm trying to say?

- Yeah, we have four full-time staff, including me.

In the process of hiring another team member right now.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- [Wade] And we serve a big service area.

It's a 10 county geography around northern Kentucky, Greater Cincinnati.

- [Barbara] You do?

- Southeast Indiana.

- You do, you go over into Kentucky.

- [Wade] That's right.

- Wow, so tell us about all these things you're working on.

- Well, we've got a big vision for how all of our trails can connect.

And like Sean said, it really stems from the Little Miami Trail.

It was one of the first rail to trail projects in the country back in the 80s.

Got the first tranche of federal funding for rail to trail projects.

And so because we had this awesome case study in town with Loveland and so many people can go see it and experience it, it created all this interest and momentum.

And so we have plans for trails in every county.

Oftentimes they're either following an old railroad or a waterway because that's often where the flat land is, you know?

- [Barbara] Yeah, right.

- And so, I mean, the plans go up the great Miami River, they go down the Licking River.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- They go out the Ohio River.

And some of these projects are longer term, right?

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- They take years to implement.

- Well, Wasson Way, how long did that take?

- About 10, 15 years.

- [Barbara] Yeah, see.

- From idea to reality.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Yeah, and it's still going.

- [Sean] That's right.

- Yeah, right, yeah.

- Yeah, it's been exciting to help all these local governments and communities.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- That want to see trails happen.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Navigate the process.

It's fairly technical to plan a trail and find the money and.

- Yeah.

- Build it the right way.

And the value that we bring as an organization is that we're this independent third party that is helping local governments think outside of their jurisdictional boundary.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And not just plan a loop trail in a park.

- [Barbara] Right, yeah.

- Those are great too.

But planning trails that connect to the neighboring community and take you where you need to go.

- Yeah, is there ever any opposition to what you're doing?

- Well, the little Miami Scenic Trail had a story like that.

- [Barbara] Really?

- In Terrace Park.

- Oh, okay, tell us about that.

- Yeah, this was before my time.

You may remember it better.

- I was around for that, yeah.

- Would you like to speak to it?

Yeah.

- Sure, there were, anytime there's something new coming into a neighborhood that, you know, people are understandably protective of their communities.

- [Barbara] Yes.

- And the old rail lines literally went through people's backyards, so to speak.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And there were concerns that, hey, with this trail that you're putting in here, now all of a sudden you're gonna have people coming through basically through my backyard.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- You know, could, is there gonna be risk?

Will there be, you know, undesirable sorts?

Will there be?

- [Barbara] Oh, undesirables, yeah.

- Yes, and will there be, you know, noise and trash and all those different things.

- Right, well that's a legitimate.

- Right, so it took some convincing and persuading, but over time people began to get comfortable with the idea and eventually it now and has been demonstrated, And there are studies that show this, that the properties that abut trails are among the most desirable.

- Really?

- [Sean] Yes.

- Oh, so you proved yourself helpful instead of harmful.

- [Sean] Yeah.

- Yeah.

- And we still do get some pushback from - [Barbara] Yeah.

- Certain communities, but I would say most of the work that we're doing is because we've been invited in.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And you know, you can't make everybody happy all the time.

- [Barbara] Right.

- But for the most part, most of the neighborhoods around Cincinnati are eager to get more trails.

And I would say the challenge now is can we move fast enough?

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And, you know, find the funding to build everything that we want to.

- Yeah, what I would think, if you had little stations along the way where you could get cappuccino and some, a croissant or something, that would be a wonderful addition to all these people, 'cause I think of, I look, see all these people running and walking, I think when are they gonna get some refreshment or a food truck or something.

- Yeah, so.

- [Barbara] But there's lots of opportunities of that.

Like in Hyde Park, if you're crossing Edwards Road, you can just go right on down, there's a bakery there.

- Oh yeah.

- You can get stuff, so.

- Yeah, and Busken's, they turned their frontage around for that popup window.

- [Barbara] Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

- [Wade] As a result of the trail.

- [Barbara] Right.

- And I would say on the Wasson Way in particular.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- You know, we expect to see more developments like that happen.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- It takes a little time.

- [Barbara] Sure.

- 'Cause the trail was just built in 2021, I wanna say, is when that section opened.

And we hope that development will embrace the trail.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And make it feel like the front door like it does in downtown Loveland.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Barbara, what you're describing is something that's called trail oriented development.

- [Barbara] Okay.

- And it's really interesting, and you've really put your finger on it because when you think of it, as this infrastructure was originally built, it was industrial.

So buildings backed up to it.

And when they went through neighborhoods, you know, you wanted to kind of wall it off.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Now people are down there, and businesses are reorienting themselves to face the trail.

And what's interesting, and you've probably seen this on Wasson Way, there are as many if not more pedestrians on that trail than there are people on bikes.

- [Barbara] Yeah, many more.

- Quite a bit, and those types of walkable amenities are even more important to pedestrians really.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Than the cyclists, so.

- Yeah, I don't know, I notice the pedestrians, and in the heat of the summer, they're still out there.

The cold of the winter, they're still out there.

Yeah, and rail lines are the, thankful to the railroads.

They made the perf, they knew the location.

They knew where to go.

And you don't have to worry about that.

You just follow the railroad.

- That's right, and in a hilly town like Cincinnati.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Where we often hear the feedback of I'm not going to bike because it's hilly, the railroads are a very gentle grade.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And overcome that barrier because it makes it feel more accessible.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And I would say that we are really fortunate in Cincinnati to have all of these inactive, underutilized railroads that we've been able to convert to trails.

Many communities wish that they had this type of amenity.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Even across the river, like northern Kentucky, most of the railroads are still very active.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- But we've had the little Miami Scenic Trail, the Wasson Way, the Ohio River Trail in parts, including a new section that will be built in 2029 that will go from Lincoln Airport to downtown by Great Parks of Hamilton County.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- [Wade] And the whole mission of our project, the Crown.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Has been to connect them all into a 34 mile loop that people can use to get to most of Cincinnati's neighborhoods, and the major destinations like uptown and downtown where we have so many jobs.

- Yeah, the Crown, that's what I was going to ask you about that.

And so that's the title of the entire project that you hope to do.

- That's right, and I would say that we are doing, - [Barbara] Yeah.

- It's a 34 mile loop.

It'll link up those three trails plus the Mill Creek Greenway.

And the Eastern half, more than half of the loop, about 24 miles is all funded to be connected.

- [Barbara] Right.

- [Wade] So the way that the federal funding works is you get the money and then it comes in in several fiscal years down the road.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- So we're waiting on several sections to be constructed.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- But because of the public private partnership that we have with the city of Cincinnati and Great Parks and some outer lying communities like Marymont, Fairfax, Fairfax/Columbia Township, this network is coming together, and people are really excited for it.

- Yeah, what would you say are your challenges?

- Well, it's interesting, as Wade was describing, we often get asked when will these trails get built.

And, you know, we show these maps of where the trails are going, and they're like great.

Kind of will I be able to ride on it this spring?

Unfortunately, it doesn't move that fast.

We say only half jokingly, trails get built at the speed of money.

And these are very, they're really kind of complex real estate transactions.

- [Barbara] Right.

- And we have a capital stack that goes into it.

There's state grants, there are federal grants.

Cities put money in.

There's different requirements for how design gets funded versus how construction gets funded.

There are different opportunities for funding for crossings and safety enhancements and so forth.

And so one of the things we do at Tri-State Trails is we put all, help put all of these pieces together.

We're rarely the principle in any of those.

These all are ultimately public projects, but we help our public partners be able to move and sort of accelerate that speed of money.

So the big obstacles really are usual, you know, resources.

- [Barbara] Sure.

- So there are two things really that kind of affect our ability to get trails built.

One is right of way acquisition.

So rail lines are great when we can acquire a, and I say we, it's really a city.

It's a public entity that acquires a large section of rail line 'cause once they own that, boy, then they can really go.

Unfortunately the rail lines don't go everywhere we want to go.

So some of it has to go through a park or through some private property or something like that.

And so then there are individual negotiations with property owners to do that.

So that's one obstacle.

But we are, we remain undaunted with those.

- [Barbara] Yeah, yeah.

- And then the other is the funding.

Putting all the finances together for these projects is a very meticulous process.

And there are fortunately some very thoughtful public sector partners that are involved.

So building a trail, you wouldn't necessarily think it, but the Ohio Department of Transportation gets involved in all of our trail projects.

It's transportation.

And they also are a body that understands how to utilize federal funds, for example.

And they're familiar with those processes.

So ODOT is involved, the city is involved.

The OKI Regional Council of Governments.

- You know, my head is spinning because I know what bureaucracy.

- [Sean] Yeah.

- [Barbara] That's your challenge is bureaucracy.

- Well, and I would say one of the other challenges that trail projects often face is that public or political support side of it.

- [Sean] That's true.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And fortunately, most of the projects that we're working on in the urban core area have the political will and the public support behind them.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And it's really just, can we assemble the corridor and how long will it take to find the money, you know?

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And I think people would be amazed at how effective and professional our public sector partners are.

You know, a lot of times people wonder, well are these folks really, you know, being good stewards of the resources?

And I can tell you.

- [Barbara] You think they have.

- From the ground level, yes, yes.

There's some very top-notch folks that really know what they're doing.

- What about if you run into someplace you're gonna go, and it's a private property, and they won't, you don't do eminent domain, I hope.

- No, that is a tool that can be used, but there are no examples that I am aware of locally where it has been used 'cause it's controversial primarily.

And, you know, there are instances where an opportunity for a trail has to wait, and the Little Miami Trail is a great example of that.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- I think it was back in 2015, it extended from Newtown into Little Miami Golf Center down to Beachmont Avenue, and Great Parks of Hamilton County was talking with a farm landowner through there, and he didn't wanna sell.

And eventually he passed away, and the estate reached out to the park district.

And then as soon as that last holdout, you know, was resolved.

- He died.

- He died, yes.

- Yeah.

- They got the corridor assembled, and the trail was built very shortly after.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And that is definitely an example of like the long game nature that we're playing with these projects.

- Yeah, when you have to wait for somebody to die.

That is, that could be a long haul.

- Well, you know, the railroads, they think in terms of centuries, right?

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- You know, there have, the railroad that Wasson Way was purchased from was assembled, you know, probably in the 1850s, 1900s.

- [Barbara] Right.

- And you know, they don't always want to sell their corridors.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Even if they're inactive because they know that it's a valuable asset.

- [Barbara] Right.

- And so putting together those corridors are a big part of the work to be done to create the opportunities for trails.

- Is there any money exchanged when you get these rights from the railroads?

- Most certainly, oh yes.

- Yes?

- Oh yes.

- You're paying them.

- [Wade] Yes.

- [Sean] Correct.

- You think about how much we spend on roads and highways.

- [Barbara] Right.

- And compared to the scale of the Brent Spence Bridge project.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- $3.4 billion.

- [Barbara] Yes.

- This is a small - Drop in the bucket, yeah.

- Investment.

- Let's call it an investment.

- That's right, in the quality of life and amenities that we have in our region.

And a huge selling point for how we are able to build support for this project and still do, is the ability to attract and retain talent to the region.

- Right.

- We have awesome Fortune 500 companies, and in fact, Kroger and P&G both contributed a million dollars to our fundraising campaign.

And they want to be able to attract the best talent, right?

- Sure, and that's part of it.

- And we don't have mountains.

We don't have an ocean, but we do have these beautiful river valleys and these historic railroads that we've been able to create linear parks with.

And that is an amenity that people would choose to live in Cincinnati for.

And so creating those opportunities in more neighborhoods is a big part of the work so that it's easier to just hop out of your house on a bike and safely get to the trail and ride your bike as long as your heart desires or go on a run or a walk instead of having to drive to the trail or to a park.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- It's bringing those amenities closer to home.

- It's, a lot of the amenities that corporates use to attract people, this sort of thing, plus the arts.

And we found that even if people don't actually go to the symphony or watch PBS or get on the bike trail, they want it there.

They want it to be available.

They want their city to have it, and they will support it even though they don't use it, which is a really great thing.

- [Wade] Yeah.

- But they want their city to have all these desirable things to make it a better place to live.

- Barbara, I'm really glad you brought up art because the trail is an incredible opportunity for public art.

We have really made it a priority to include public art on the trail.

In fact, we have the longest linear mural that artworks ever made.

- [Barbara] Really?

- [Sean] Is on the back of the Duke Energy building that runs right along Wasson Way in Evanston, and it's called Electric Avenue.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And if you haven't been out there, it's worth taking a look.

And it's great because just as we were talking earlier, it faces the trail.

You can't see it from the street, but you can see it from the trail.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And there are other examples of trails that have really made public art a centerpiece of their trails.

The cultural trail in Indianapolis has wonderful sculptures and other forms of art on the trail.

The belt line in Atlanta, same thing.

And we think it's just a great opportunity, particularly for local artists as well.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- To, to have their work presented to the public.

- Yeah, to me that's a really great component of the pleasure.

It's like if you're riding in a car, and there's nothing to look at, it's so boring if it's just the same, even if it's trees.

After a while you get tired of trees, and you wanna see houses or something.

And if you have this art on the trail, I hadn't thought about it.

Actually, I didn't know you had art on the trail.

- [Sean] Yeah.

- And are you gonna try to make that more prominent and encourage that?

- Yes, every section of the trail that we build, we want to have public art on it.

- Yeah, well that sounds, that sounds really great, yeah.

- It's a great way too to think about how we can celebrate each of the unique neighborhoods.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Along the trail because it's connecting so many different - [Barbara] Exactly.

- Cincinnati neighborhoods and additional - [Barbara] Yeah.

- Neighboring jurisdictions, and each one of those has their own vibe.

- [Barbara] Yes.

- And feel, and the trail can be a canvas for that.

- Yeah, that sounds wonderful.

So do you have community events?

- Yeah, we organize a series of events throughout the year to promote our trails and invite people to participate in our movement.

So the big one we do in the spring is called Breakfast on the Bridge.

It is in celebration of National Bike to Work Day.

I think we're doing the 17th edition of it this year on the Purple People Bridge.

And it's a really fun morning, just free coffee and pastries and lots of camaraderie of folks who are biking to work that day.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- Then throughout the summer we organize what we call pop-up bike shops.

And these are free bike repair events often in some of the underserved communities along either where the trail is built or where we're trying to connect the trail.

That way folks who live in those communities who might not have access to a bike or might have a bike that needs some maintenance, we are helping equip them with a safe bike to ride and lights and a lock.

And we have so many volunteers who plug in to help repair bikes and just make it a welcoming experience for people.

And then the last event that we do in the spring, or in the fall is the Tour de Crown.

So this is an opportunity to experience the trail as it evolves each year as a new mile is built in a different part of the city.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- And each year the route changes a little bit for that reason.

- [Barbara] Yeah.

- But one day the trail, the ride will be all on trail.

It starts at 50 West Brewing Company down in Columbia Township, and it's a real fun day to go on either a 34 mile ride of the whole thing or we have a beginner friendly option for folks to, you know, get their their feet wet riding bike for the first time with the group.

- You two are doing the greatest thing for our city.

You really are.

You should be just really proud of yourselves 'cause.

- Thanks.

- It's something that people are becoming aware of because they see it, and the more of it we have, the better off we are obviously.

It's part of being a great place to live and to work.

Thank you so much for coming.

- Thanks for having us.

- Thanks for having us here.

- [Barbara] All right.

- [Announcer] Join us next week for another episode of "Showcase with Barbara Kellar" right here on CET.

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